Maschine 3.0 and older devices?

PortableDJs
PortableDJs Member Posts: 51 Member
in Maschine

Hi guys!

So we have a 3.0 update coming in November, kind of excited and… worried.

I own a Mk3, a Kontrol m32 and a Maschine Jam, haven't found any official news that states that Maschine Jam (and Mk1, Mk2, Studio) will be supported on 3.0

On the contrary "words of the streets" say that Maschine 3.0 does not support older hardware.

What you think guys, any insight to share?

Peace

G.

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Comments

  • solsta
    solsta Member Posts: 130 Helper

    I also want to know, I have a jam, maschine studio, and s49mk2, I would be hoping they are still compatible. the studio is the best controller by far for my needs, the jog wheels and extra buttons are essentialllll

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 744 Pro
    edited October 16

    the retirement of maschine controllers affects me… as 5 controllers i have acquired in the last 3 years were at a relatively cheap price…

    they still currently work, even if 3 of them (maschine mk1's)require a PC

    i believe an issue that may arise for people, who inadvertantly make a purchase of these retired devices, is that "if" & this is a BIG "IF" Native instruments stop selling the Maschine 2.0 software, or again force the disabling of the Maschine 2.0 software upon upgrade with maschine 3.0(within Native access)… this is something users will need to pay attention to

    beyond this… repurposing maschine controllers to work with other software(midi mode) will likely be the norm, unless people dont care to do such things… in which case the prices of such older units will be driven to new market "lows"

  • ALDREAD
    ALDREAD Member Posts: 119 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/37404/maschine-3-0-and-older-devices

    nI posted this earlier

    It doesn’t mention jam / kk mk2 or the studio , so they should be ok


    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/37381/ending-software-support-for-earlier-generations-of-maschine#latest

  • PortableDJs
    PortableDJs Member Posts: 51 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/184720#Comment_184720

    Thank you for sharing this, I missed it. Yeah Jam and Studio seem out of the retirement list, so they should keep working on 3.0

  • Mike Maschine
    Mike Maschine Member Posts: 6 Member

    I Have the MK2 so I'll have to upgrade my hardware to be able to use Maschine 3.0, my problem is that I don't want to upgrade to the MK3 just to discover a MK4 is on the way.

  • iNate
    iNate Member Posts: 249 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/184711#Comment_184711

    Native Instruments has never disabled old versions of software simply because you upgraded to the latest version. People who upgraded from Kontakt 6 → 7 retained a Kontakt 6 license in their accounts. It doesn't work the way [e.g.] Steinberg upgrades work (Steinberg does this because newer licenses run previous versions of the software, anyways - there is no need to maintain the old licenses).

    Maschine 3 is likely to be a paid upgrade for anyone not acquiring it through hardware bundling. That money is better spent towards an upgraded controller down the road.

    People with old controllers can simply stay on Maschine 2.x.

    ANd anyone buying MK1 or MK2 controllers in the past 3 years should have been doing so with the understanding that those devices are dead in the water, and any support that remains for them was merely vestigial.

    No reasonable users were expecting those devices to be supported by Maschine 3.x software.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,466 Expert

    “Reasonable” is a very subjective matter

  • Lionzinio
    Lionzinio Member Posts: 128 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/185356#Comment_185356

    While your old systems and software will continue to work, in much the same way that old studio equipment continues to function but might be irreparable, in many cases the old and the new do not coexist well together.

    In the case of both Komplete Kontrol and Kontact, it is impossible to have plugins for both of these on the same system, the new software simply obliterates the old no matter how you attempt to rename or jerry rig them.

    The result is that you are left with a development cliff face. Either update everything (including all your old projects because they’ll be unusable otherwise) or simply persist with your the ‘old’ existing system.

    Hopefully, Maschine 3 will find a way around this, allowing it to gracefully open existing Maschine 2 projects and functioning as a truly ‘intelligent’ plug in, able to either open and load existing M2 projects within DAWs without users having had to do anything should the M2 plugin not be available, or leaving things up to the user should both the M2 and M3 plugins be on the system.

    That way older, existing projects would be protected and still viable, while being easy for the user to choose to update them at their convenience.

    Because, ultimately, it should always be the user’s choice and the software/hardware should be there to enable this, not dictate it.

  • iNate
    iNate Member Posts: 249 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/185358#Comment_185358

    "Reasonable" is fairly objective until unreasonable people want their demands met ;-)

    Expecting support for 10 year old hardware devices is pretty unreasonable, especially when you can… just continue to use Maschine 2, which does support them, so long as you don't update to an OS revision that breaks the software.

  • iNate
    iNate Member Posts: 249 Advisor
    edited October 21

    Maschine controllers - at least those that exist now - do not rely on Komplete Kontrol 3 for any functionality, and you can simply not update to Maschine 3 or any revision of Controller Editor that may drop support for them.

    The only major factor is the Maschine software itself, and those people can simply not upgrade.

    Older projects will continue to be viable as long as Maschine 3 can import Maschine 2 projects, which I cannot see them failing to implement. The controller itself does not do anything to projects that would render them non-portable. It's just a controller for the software. Everything it does is accomplished via functionality in the software itself.

    I don't understand these responses. You are windmilling trying to invent a rational for an irrational argument.

    AFAIK, Kontakt 6, 7 and 8 all work with Maschine 2. There is no issue with that. Komplete Kontrol is a complete non-factor as far as Maschine 2 and Maschine controllers are concerned. It isn't needed at all. Maschine 2 does all of the Scanning and Indexing itself. It works even with Komplete Kontrol absent on the user's machine, Lol. Komplete Kontrol is only needed for Komplete Kontrol controllers.

    Maschine Controllers only need the Controller Editor, the Hardware Service (for software to connect to the hardware) and the Driver for MK3/Plus for the Audio Interface.

    The code for Indexing, Browsing and Hosting Instruments is baked into the Maschine 2 Software. Komplete Kontrol is redundant for that. It exists for non-Native Instruments music production software to utilize their keyboard controllers.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,820 Expert

    @iNate try to set up a system with Maschine 1.8 software and everything else from NI today, and report back how well it went and which products you weren’t able to get installed or running.

    I promise, it’s a highly entertaining and somewhat educational experience!

  • iNate
    iNate Member Posts: 249 Advisor

    Upgrade to Mschine 2. It supports all of those devices.

    I don't even know what your point is supposed to be.

    You're going out of your way to invent scenarios to make anything you say make sense.

    By the time Maschine 2 is failing on machines, we will be well past the release of Maschine 3… and that will only be a factor on macOS, anyways, as it always tends to be.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,820 Expert

    You’re on macOS and own a Maschine Mk1. Try again.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,466 Expert
    edited October 21

    Once again it seems to me that you are speaking without a big knowledge of history and what happened in the past.

    Maybe this time they will do everything correctly because they are changed. That’s what we all hope.

    But is the same hope we had 5 years ago (and we gave them the benefit of doubt). And nothing changed.

    Same hope we had 10 years ago. And nothing changed.

    Same hope we had 15 years ago. And nothing changed.

    So…allow us to be a little bit disillusioned…and believe things only when we see them.

    And also to be sceptic, because what we are seeing from the “new” NI at the moment is the same old story: a company trying to force users to buy new updates without really offering enough reasons to do it…just because otherwise they’ll make your life an hell. A company declaring perfectly working devices EOL. A company not listening to users (although they state the opposite) and releasing new versions of softwares (KK) and hardwares (Kontrol MK3) that are a delusion to many.

    Which is really a pity…because after having waited so long for news on Maschine, I would really like to be EXCITED for the new version coming. And happy to pay for the work they put on it, if it meets my expectations. Instead, I’m once again SCEPTIC, because the first things we see are again deluding (products EOL, uncertainty on the validity of the moves they took (or better…FEAR of what they are doing, seen how they moved with kk),…)

    Btw…you saying “Upgrade to Maschine 2” is perfectly proving what we say: if someone paid for Maschine 1.8 and he is perfectly happy with what it does and don’t need anything more, why should he spend more money to update to something he doesn’t want/need? Making his life an hell is exactly FORCING to update and not respecting the contract you had with him about being able to use what he paid for.

    And…please…don’t go once again on the “support” argument. Nobody asked for support: you want to abandon a software or a device? Ok. No problem. You are free to do whatever you want. Give us the installation files, the activation code and then you can even forget having even created that product…and goodbye.

    There’s a reason why they call it End Of Life and not End Of Support: because after it has been declared, the life of the product will be quite short…and it won’t take too long before you can’t even use it anymore.

    And there’s a reason also why they don’t make the product unusable immediately from the day after it has been EOLed. And the reason is because if that would happen, probably users will really rise up against them, while doing it 1 year after (or if we are lucky 2) they can answer you “but this product is already EOL”. While the correct thing to do should be saying “we won’t support the product anymore. Here are all the things you need to continue using it INDEFINITELY (as was stated in the EULA that they changed in their favor, once again with users accepting everything…) as long as you meet the requirements”, without them having to put a single effort in it.

    But…you know…that would be an hindrance to their plans to sell you the new things. Plans which, as I already said somewhere else, no longer include “give them a very good product and people will WANT to update”, but instead “make their life more difficult and they will HAVE to update”

    Yes…they are really lucky to be able to count on fresh blood unaware of history…


    “100 of our loyal customers are abandoning us because of our behavior ”

    “Who cares…we have 101 new unaware customers buying our things with whom we can start the game once again”

  • Hywel
    Hywel Member Posts: 55 Member

    Disclaimer - I'm NOT a major user of Maschine 2.0 software but have used it whilst not owning any Maschine hardware other than a Maschine Jam which I now use primarily for MIDI CC input.

    The current Maschine 2.0 software can be used independently of hardware and I have used it in this manner recently.

    When the Kontrol S-Series MK3 keyboards were released nearly a year ago by NI, a lot of the functionality in them, though accessed through KK3 or Kontakt 8, is dependent upon the hardware contained within those devices… They make a big point of the fact that these devices use ONBOARD hardware systems rather than the computer software systems.

    I'm not a betting man BUT, what are the chances of Maschine 3.0 being SIMILAR - ie the "on computer software" being reduced in functionality because the "bells and whistles" and "brand new" functionality will be hardware based (the NEW Maschine device, just around the corner).

    I may be wrong of course and they might have a Maschine 3.0 that is more akin to a current front-line DAW like Logic, Cubase or Ableton etc. There is always hope I suppose…

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