VST3 support - how is it going?

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newcomer
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  • tempsperdu
    tempsperdu Member Posts: 406 Pro
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    coongaman

    That is the sad and simple story of NI and Maschine.


    Maybe if someone posted a road map to something called self-respect, they could peruse it and start considering it as an option to show their much beleaguered users.

  • Royal Tee
    Royal Tee Member Posts: 36 Member
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    VST3?? Thoughts and Prayers. 😫

  • tempsperdu
    tempsperdu Member Posts: 406 Pro
    edited June 2022
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    OK I can't find a poll option so l'll ask a direct question......

    How many of you find NI's behaviour regarding VST3 acceptable or excusable in any way shape or form or do you feel it is an insult to both the users and themselves? And do you find asking that question an act of abuse?

    We could also ask if anyone finds it acceptable they attempt to bully people that are critical of their practices and threaten them with permanent bans but in the current 'climate' I suppose that might be seen as unduly provocative. I'm sorry but I find such actions despicable and a sign of a company completely losing whatever they ever thought was the plot. Believe you me,I am trying to be polite about this, so I don't my self receive threats,.but it is extremely hard to think of a way to actually be so.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newcomer
    edited June 2022
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  • Flexi
    Flexi Member Posts: 366 Pro
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    I am unsure why people even mention Izotope plugins when talking about Maschine, no matter if they are VST2 or VST3, Izotopes plugins generally have latency, Maschine does not have PDC, so you wont want to be using their plugins even if they are supported, unless you like all your tracks to be out of sync.

    There is talk here of putting the cart before the horse, but at the same time demanding VST3 support, that is putting the cart before the horse when there is no PDC, PDC is a much longer needed feature when it comes to plugin support.

  • [Deleted User]
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  • olafmol
    olafmol Member Posts: 150 Pro
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    I have some (decades) experience in software and engineering, including management.

    What I see is a company that is able to create new products, both sw and hw, most probably by hiring external teams and engineers to pull this off. Then the NI people take over to market the hell out of it.

    As long as they have a running contract with the original team they can fix and update for a while, but at some point the team will disband and contracts will end.

    From this point on it will be up to chance if an internal engineer has time, knowledge and energy to work on improving existing products. This is very random and often hit & miss. It looks very engineering driven: what cool thing can I think of and want to add, instead of product roadmap driven (ie what are customers asking for and what is on our feature roadmap). Vst3 support is typically not something and engineer adds for fun.

    At this point the product is basically orphaned and is kept in some kind of zombie barely alive mode.

    Until the next cool new product is being launched. Rinse & repeat.

  • [Deleted User]
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  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,844 Expert
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    NI has many relatively small projects/plugins. It may be harder to maintain than big projects... Also lots of legacy code.... And few years ago NI has layed out many employes.... Owner has changed twice in past few years.... Pressure to cut expenditures and maximize profit...

    And in this situation Apple Silicon and end of VST3, more and more urgent need for scalable UI, .... And COVID. And war. And general lack of programmers in Europe.

    Many smaller or bigger things that make transition pretty hard.

    AS native compatibility will come in few months and VST3 along with it.

  • Flexi
    Flexi Member Posts: 366 Pro
    edited June 2022
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    Again, without PDC, most 3rd party plugins will have latency and can't be used, unless sloppy timing is no issue (how many people are using Maschine for Ambient?)

    This is real simple stuff to understand from a user perspective, but everybody still screams for VST3 support first, so in reality, nobody wins, we will get VST3 support with no PDC and most VST3 plugins will ruin timing.


    As for other comments about Maschine being orphaned, this is simply not the case, it has a full time team according to current staffers, what they do, what they are allowed to do, what gets passed on to end users, all decided outside of that team.

    Trust me, I have been around a long long time with NI (pre NI even) eventually you come to a fork in the road.

    Road one - sell all my NI stuff and move on, road two - deal with the fact that updates will not come, will not be what anybody wanted, and promises often turn in to myth, and if an update comes you find useful, you will be pleasantly surprised.

    Either way, just keep making music, its all that matters.

  • [Deleted User]
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  • Flexi
    Flexi Member Posts: 366 Pro
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    Yeah, best way is to just stick to the native effects, beyond that, test everything with plugin doctor.

    It is not just lack of PDC by the way, Reaktor, which is a lot of effects, doesn't even report latency to the host, so PDC wouldn't work anyway.

    All these things add up, but everyone wants VST3, cause shiny shiny.

  • [Deleted User]
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  • coongaman
    coongaman Member Posts: 16 Helper
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    About the Izotope latency I just make sure I put the same plugs on group level.

    To me the Izo plugin is godsent as it saves me time to focus more on the creative process.

    Also by implementing VST3, it will make the masking and dynamic eq sidechain work at its full.

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