How to reset measure-start in Traktor Pro 4?
Answers
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I didnt yet. I feel your pain. Even the Grid Play Head in TP4 is wonky which shows in your videos.
Who exactly are these beta testers???? Were they Traktor users at all??? How about a "Spotlight" on the beta testers who didn't catch this mammoth oversight lol.
When analyzing a track in TP4, it will decide where it wants to put the Grey colored Grid marker (in slot 1 only lol). You cannot change it, you cannot move it, you cannot pass go you cannot collect $200.
If TP4 analyzes the track wrongly (which happens 6 outta 10 times), you simply cannot alter it, move it, or do anything with it…NOTHING! So you gotta delete it and rely on Cue, Load, Fade in, or fade out to set the GRID??? WHaaat?? Why???
NI is avoiding talking about it. They've deleted abt 100 of my response posts abt it on NI's Youtube channel.
I get that NOW we can use Cue, Load, Fade in, and Fade out to set the grid. And we dont have to rely on the actual White Grid marker (now colored GREY 🙃) anymore. But why?
In my case I just use the Load (Yellow) marker to set the grid manually on the downbeat (at the place id like load /start) and then Lock the BPM. This way the "4x4 Grid is set to my liking and the track starts where I want it to when loading into deck. And I have 7 free Cue points.
Im lost on what they're trying to achieve with the White (now Grey lol) Grid marker in slot 1 after analyzing the track. 6 times out of 10 its going to analyze it wrong. Then you get to set there and just look at it wondering why its even there….
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It turns out that users like me can't create a Poll. The only choices are Discussions & Questions, the latter being what you use for a single topic (the former being for wide-ranging issues).
I'll message an admin, refer to this thread, and see if we can get the Admins to make a poll out of this on the "share ideas" page.
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Well, for the record, here's the new discussion that's stated as a declarative feature request (vs. the "Question" I asked in this Discussion):
I tagged it as "Feature Request", but it still didn't show up in the "Share Ideas" as a poll. I've messaged an N+I community forum admin person (Matt_NI) to see what is needed to turn it into a poll. Maybe he just turns it into a poll. Keep watch there.
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And I asked Traktor Devs to make a statement.
Who exactly are these beta testers????
Amongst others: me. What do you want to do with this information?
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You are not going to be able to do this in Traktor 4. End of story. Until it is fixed.
To help filter out some concerns regarding Traktor 3:
In Traktor 3 you could have set that 'downbeat' as GRID but you haven't done that in the above example, because cue 4 is not set to GRID. Try this and run your tests again on Traktor 3. Once you have done that, then explore Traktor 4.
TRAKTOR 3.11….
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@MrCee I have no issues with TP3. As you can see in my screenshot, in TP3, I have both Cue 4 and Grid marker set to the downbeat (grid markers are not taking up cue slots), and after that marker, the downbeat position is changed correctly for the rest of the track.
As you said, it really is so that this is not possible in TP4, and that's a shame. I don't understand how something like this has been overlooked. I don't believe introducing a flexible grid would have required removing this feature; the devs just took the wrong implementation route. Why couldn't each new grid marker reset the downbeat measure from that point onward? That would still allow changing the tempo for different grid zones. @lord-carlos Do you know if bringing this feature back is on the roadmap?
@John6 You can still manage grid markers in TP4 (delete and add as many as you want). They're just not manageable under the Cue tab anymore but only under the Grid tab.
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@John6You can still manage grid markers in TP4 (delete and add as many as you want). They're just not manageable under the Cue tab anymore but only under the Grid tab.Yes with your help I understand now. I took abt half way through my own thread (highlighted below),
Below is the second page of the thread where I finally got it. I should have updated my progress here as well.
https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/34282/tp4-grid-are-a-mess/p2
I felt like I was already hijacking @MrCee thread once I created my own. Sorry man.
Btw @MrCee you got my vote with the issue your having being implemented back into TP4.
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Hi all, thanks again for bringing this topic up and be ensured, we are fully aware of it and have already started looking into the options for a fix.
To give you some background : we intentionally decided to go for a simplified concept first (no reset of phase or downbeat per grid marker) and wait for the user feedback to understand what is exactly needed.
In my eyes we basically have two options now:
1. introducing a global option that triggers a reset of the downbeat for all Grid Markers equally (this would restore the behaviour of Pro 3 and be ideal for users that used Grid Markers in Pro 3 for that purpose).
2. making the reset a per-Grid Marker option, which makes this a quite complex feature, as it requires additional controls, visualisation and serialisation of each Grid-Markers state.
I'd like to steer this conversation into the direction of what is exactly needed by you.7 -
This is great news! I would be completely happy with the first (simpler) solution
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how long does it take until this problem is solved? it is something extremely serious. I updated today and after only 1 hour of testing I ran into this incredibly serious problem. I have to go back to traktor pro 3 because of this.... what a mistake on the part of native instruments. I don't understand how something like this escaped.
Indeed, I have songs that in certain areas change their measure, but not the bpm... and when I select a new beat grid, it also resets the bpm of the song... which is totally wrong. Urgently solve this problem!0 -
Hi, @Friedemann_NI and glad to hear from you, and hear about your plan to address this issue. I'm sure you're seeing our pain. I'm happy you're moving quickly to release stuff, even if it's not perfect - as long as you (now) keep up with those fast release cycles in order to speedily address issues that arise (like this).
Please know that this intermediate 3/4 or 5/4 measure thing within a track frequently happens more than once in a song, as part of a repeating pattern the producer is creating. If it happens once, it's quite likely to happen a second time in a song.
TP3 could handle this nicely. For instance, if there was a 5/4 measure at the end of a breakdown that is, say, 1/3 of the way into a track, in TP3 I could set a Cue there, and set the Cue Point Type to "Grid", which properly reset the measure going forward.
Then, if a second 5/4 measure occurred after a second breakdown, I could set another Cue Point as Grid, and everything was correct from that point forward as well.
All good! And I'm sure we will all want to preserve that capability because of the likelihood of > 1 in a song. My guess is that this implies your option number 2 above, but the facts are what they are, and we need the ability to do it > 1 time in a track. (It's not THAT complicated; I mean, the UX worked out well in TP3.)
Another important note: I'm getting the sense you're trying to move this "reset" feature from Cue to Grid (given that you're saying the words "Grid Marker"). Please keep in mind that all your users are likely to have many, many tracks that are currently using the Cue to reset the measure mark. Moving this reset to the Grid panel is likely to make us all re-do that work UNLESS you provide some automation for it. We may howl if you do this without automation; maybe that's okay - as long as you're on a 6-week release cycle, and give us the automation pretty quickly.
Does this help?
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All good! And I'm sure we will all want to preserve that capability because of the likelihood of > 1 in a song. My guess is that this implies your option number 2 above, but the facts are what they are, and we need the ability to do it > 1 time in a track. (It's not THAT complicated; I mean, the UX worked out well in TP3.)
Making "Grid Markers Reset Downbeat" a global option would exactly replicate the Pro 3 behaviour, as every "Grid"- type hotcue did reset the downbeat in Pro 3.
Moving this reset to the Grid panel is likely to make us all re-do that work UNLESS you provide some automation for it.
When playing a Pro 3 track with multiple "Grid"- type hotcues in Pro 4 you will see a Grid Marker for each of the previous "Grid"- type hotcues. Once the above option is availble, all these Grid Markers will reset the downbeat, as they did in Pro 3.
I start to get the feeling that we should create a beta version soon that has this global option enabled to let you verify if this does the job for you.2 -
Because I'm not using Grid Markers yet extensively personally, I probably don't fully understand what you're proposing. HOWEVER, as long as you're clear on the problem we're trying to solve, and have a decent solution design in mind, I'm sure we'll adapt.
(… keeping in mind my comment about us already having a bunch of tracks using Cue to accomplish this, and what you'll be asking us to do to change to a new system.)
Happy to be a beta tester. I've been in the software business most of my career, and know how to (a) write well-constrained issue reports, and (b) write agile/scrum user stories if I see a feature that needs described well.
E.g.: As a DJ I want to reset the downbeat for a measure mid-song after a preceding measure that is other-than 4/4 so that I can rely on measure markers to properly mix after that non-4/4 measure.
;-)
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when gridding e.g. 70s disco tracks with unsteady bpm I sometimes need dozens of grid markers. In some cases even the 4/4 is too big but anyway we need option "2" to be able to set the measure start on certain grid markers. there should be a conversion for TP3 grid markers to the new "measure markers"
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Hi Thomas, good catch! What you describe is exactly the corner case that will not be covered by the global option suggested above.
My counter arguments would be the following:- we somehow need to keep things simple (at least at the beginning).
The global option will cover 90% of the use-cases - In Pro 3 it was not possible either to adjust individual beats without resetting the downbeat
- I'd say it is musically acceptable that only every 4th beat is aligned with the grid, because often beats 2, 3 and 4 are intentionally laggy or early
This is not a categoric rejection to your requirements, but we also have to consider the downsides of more complex approach.
1 - we somehow need to keep things simple (at least at the beginning).
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