How to reset measure-start in Traktor Pro 4?

jbatson

Some songs will omit, or add a beat, establishing a new (down)beat for the start of a measure. See attached image for a song where one measure is in 3/4 time at the end of a breakdown, and the 4-beat measure count needs reset to the location indicated by the arrow. Traktor's automatic beatgrid detection fails to understand this.

In TP3 I could designate a cue as "Grid" and it would reset the 4-beat grid to this beat. I would in the image shown designate this cue as a "Grid" cue, and fix the visual indication of 4-beat measures.

However, TP4 no longer offers that setting for a cue. (I'm guessing the new flexible beat grid capabilities apparently demanded removal of that.)

How, then, do I reset the start of a measure to this new downbeat?

jbatson

I finally received a reply from N+I about this. I’m copying it here for two reasons: 1) To show that it isn’t, in fact, something that can be done in Traktor 4, and 2) so that whomever here (@mrcee?) knows how to get community support polled for this can help do so.

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Hi Jay,

Thanks for the explanation.

I have discussed this issue with the development team and unfortunately this functionality isn't currently possible.

I have posted this as a feature request and hopefully it is something the development team will consider including within an update.

If this feature is implemented it will be available within a Traktor update through Native Access. You can see what's included within each update by looking at the change log for the product.

Best regards,

xxx @ NI

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(Jay again).

Is there some community-available mechanism to post this as a feature request and get "votes" on it?

-jb

sauce

I also ran into this issue. According to an explanation given in a different thread, this is an inherent limitation of the new beatgrid system because it doesn't allow phase skips.

I hope this can be changed with a future update because I also have several tracks in my library that require changes of the downbeat position.

Eeeevil

This is causing quite a problem for me as well. Thank you for pointing it out.

MrCee

Im really interested in how you go with this. Ive only just started testing today.

If you are on cue point 6, you don't have to be on a cue point, just get exactly in this space and start again by adding this… although we are not going to manage 3/4 into 4/4 but, just as a suggestion reset like this.

MrCee

Now that I've gone there with the awesome track, and reset on the 3/4 bar for that particular break without using cue points, just using the new flexible beat gridding, the rest of the phrasing is out by one beat.

zephry

That grid actually looks correct. I have had a few tracks where a kick type sound or transient sound hits right before the actual drop. Look closely at that track all the other phrasing is correct and the length of the break is also correct for a short break or drop out (effect or whatever it might be).

Maybe I am wrong. I will try the track if it is available on Beatport too.

zephry

Ok I tested the track. This is definitely a cymbal crash before the track continues on. At -03:29 you can definitely tell. The Cymbal hits at exactly the drop. 5 times before hitting within the break instead.

But I see (and hear) the way the track shifts at -01:34. The cymbal is just hitting slightly ahead of what it has before. The drums still are looping and the pattern is the same as before. The cymbal is just moved at that point in the track. I believe this was done purposely to add a human element of variation.

Both Traktor 3 and Traktor 4 set exactly the same grid.

zephry

The horn and the jazzy sounds loop almost flawlessly anywhere in the track which is not typical of most dance type music. I played against Techno. Tech House and Bass House. Randomly jumping and any spot worked. The only spot that might cause a strange feel is to repeat the cymbal. The cymbal is used as kind of a stab.

Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way or missing the issue. Sorry.

MrCee

Yes! I am seeing the same. Exactly as you said, I can see the symbol ahead of time, I factor this in also. From my view, this is a clean 121.000 BPM but there is something more going on, they also edited there and then, a millisecond not in sync? Thats symbol ahead of time in blue and back to the normal beat in purple.

So in this case with the 3/4 bar prior we should set this where you see the red playhead is depending on zoom.

we can reset at a 3/4 mark, thats great but on this macro level if you do this enough times, it really falls apart. That's obviously not with me moving / changing the first clean marker.

I've done this a few times, for this track, in this instance and yeah it actually loses timing overall if you back queue and delete current beat grid marker. Actually that would be interesting, looking into the code that splits gridding apart to see if there is a mathematical anomaly during each marker. I'm thinking it's in the deleting process which is further evaluated.

nskcharles

Traktor giveth and Traktor taketh away

jbatson

People have been focusing by analyzing this track in particular; but ignore this track if you have some issues. The problem I'm describing is a common occurrence. Producers will often change the 4/4 by inserting another bar of non-4/4 at the end of a breakdown. (It most commonly occurs by insertion of an EXTRA beat - making a bar into a 5/4 measure).

In all the above, I've yet to see anyone say "Here's how you reset the measure markers to 4/4 after a non-4/4 measure", which was possible in Traktor 3 and needs to exist in some way in Traktor 4. I don't care whether Traktor detects it automatically, or whether I reset it manually. But I want the remainder of the track to show measure markers correctly so I can come back and mix into the next track properly if I happen to be doing something else leading up to a mix / transition.

It's possible for some software to detect this; here's a screen capture of what Lexicon (the library management tool) shows when analyzing the beat grid for the same track. See how it picked up on the end of 4/4 beats after the measure labelled 114 (which shows 4/4 beat markers), and resets it to bar "1" after a 3-beat measure.

Looks like nobody in the community knows the answer. Time for an official support request to N+I.

MrCee

Perfectly explained. Thank you. But just to recap the above for anyone testing this, which is what I'm seeing also, on Traktor 3, you were able to set a white marker after a 3/4 breakdown, which resets the "measure" back to 4/4 which is what we expect to see in the GUI. However on Traktor 4, using new beatgridding as users @nskcharles have mentioned what is taken away from functionality in this new update, setting grid is no longer an option to reset grid:

This is Traktor 3 latest version:

Which does in fact reset the measure back to 4 beats via queue:

However Grid option has been removed as a reset on Traktor 4… as previously posted, but I'll include screenshots…

Traktor 4 cannot start the grid again exactly as measures would be expected in 4/4 as @jbatson explains.

Thomas Chong

Hi,

I miss the option to reset the measure as well. To me it's important to have a correct phrasing indicator.

Also it would be nice to be able to define different valid measures generally, not only 4/4.

interestingly, this similar request didnt get enough votes.

Improvements to the grid system — Community (native-instruments.com)

Should "Reset meausure" feature be a feature request ?

MrCee

Should "Reset meausure" feature be a feature request ?

It should never have been left out during testing in my humble opinion.
Does anyone else agree that this has broken previous functionality?
I have heard the word "OVERSIGHT" used too many times in these forums only to find it is never looked into again. We can do better with the right testing team where the dev's implement and expand what is delivered before release.

jbatson

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/167559#Comment_167559

True, BUT this is only because of N+I's historically slow release rate. In contrast, Lexicon (imaged above) releases roughly 1x/week with small incremental features improved constantly. (Cross-platform). This is a "move fast, make small changes" approach, vs. the historic N+I approach. I wouldn't worry about leaving things out (as much) in a release IF the release rate sped up. Maybe things are changing at N+I?

MrCee

Lexicon is not something to be introduced here. However, as you mentioned, we do have to increase the release fixes for this these issues. It would be nice to transport the logic of Lexicon to Traktor, but it's not going to happen so for now, and we need to focus on providing the best information we can to the product manager and dev team. So let's pick the current state apart so it's useful for the teams to work with.

The measure needs to be reset like it used to in Traktor 3 now there is a reduction in functionality. That's the long story short, let me know if I'm overlooking anything.