How do you setup your orchestra?
Hello Everyone,
I've setup an orchestra with every section comprising of something from Komplete Ultimate.
I have strings, horns, percussion, etc.
I'm using LIve and the template project takes 5-10 minutes to load. I've upgraded to 48GB of memory so that my PC doesn't choke. Was wondering if anyone had any useful tricks?
I was thinking of offloading some of the work to a networked PC, assuming I could get OSC to work. I'd spring for a Mac Mini or something to achieve this, if it were stable.
Any Ideas?👍️
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Generally speaking I use NI libraries for ensembles rather than orchestras. For that I normally depend on libraries from 8Dio/Soundpaint. The recording process for capturing orchestras and assignments (first chair second chair, etc) are so different it really requires a completely different sampling and setup and process to sound right. Plus the capture process I think reduces the load on the CPU even though it can take an eternity to load sometimes.
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For my composing, I usually combine the sounds from MuseScore 4 and Native Instruments for most realistic results!
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Providing that it is Kontakt that you are using then maybe this page could be of help ? : How Can I Optimize the Performance of Kontakt?
(I don't know how much that any of it will be of help inside a DAW)
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Question that has not been asked yet is what kind of drive is your Kontakt library content installed on (internal NVME/SSD, External SSD/HDD on USB2 or USB3)?
How many actual tracks are you loading? If you have like 50+ tracks, that may just be what you deal with.
Also, once loaded what is the memory footprint it takes up? If you open task manager when you load your template and monitor Ram/CPU and HDD what is showing as the bottleneck if anything?
You can add all the RAM in the world but that will not help the fact all that data has to first be shifted from a drive into memory and from my experience, some Kontakt instruments can take a long time to load even on a fast drive just due to the sheer number of samples.
Ideally you would want it on an internal NVME based SSD
I am not an "orchestral composer", but what I would personally do (as a Live user myself) based on similar setups I have done is instead of having a massive template that covers everything in a single box "just in case", design your core template with the basics of what you would usually start with, usually for me it would be percussion, strings, brass for instance. Just have as lite a template as you can manage then create grouped sections of tracks as traditional sections you can easily drag in from your browser.
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I'm guesstimating I load about 30+ tracks.
I'm at about 75-80% memory when everything is loaded. I haven't run into any bottlenecks after that.
I have my Komplete library on an external USB3.x Enclosure. Not Ideal, but it's what I deal with. File transfers are fast by modern standards, so that's not a problem. Especially since it's just the initial load, which will take long anyway. They're all loaded into memory, after all.
I thought about just making a smaller setup, but found navigating to be time consuming for me (spoiled, I know). I'll probably work backwards and remove things I don't use often....
That memory server thing looks interesting. I'll have to have a look at that.
Some nice stuff there. Ridiculous sale going on too... How do you like Soundpaint?
Forgot about MuseScore!! Tell, me, what do you like about it?
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Why forget about Muse Score?
Muse Score 4 has very realistic sounds called Muse Sounds, they are nearly realistic as String libraries from Native Instruments (certafied fact).
I like pretty much everything about MuseScore 4, the only thing I don't like is that I can't edit the volume of an individual note.
Still, it is pretty good!
I simply record the score, then drag the audio sxore to my DAW, I add some other instruments from Kontakt and BOOM!
Job done!
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I actually love Soundpaint Adastra. I haven't used it in a full orchestral setting yet, but it's very flexible, responsive and generally loads pretty quickly. One thing you can potentially do with Adastra on Soundpaint would be to reduce the total number of tracks by using their separate string and woodwind full section ensembles as that would allow you to have a single DAW track that has all the strings (violins, violas, cellos, bass) into one DAW track and recorded separately on different areas of your MIDI keyboard. It's certainly the lowest priced of any of the orchestral libraries.
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Interesting! I'll have to look into an "xscore" I'm assuming that would remedy the volume issue?
I read a review on their Majestica package and one of the cons was that you couldn't use single-instruments. Is this true for Adastra?
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What volume issue, Laserbeak?
Did MuseScore 4 crash when you used it?
Btw, I like your profile name, it is the name of a minicon from one of the most legendary Decepticons!
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I read a review on their Majestica package and one of the cons was that you couldn't use single-instruments. Is this true for Adastra?
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Not at all. They have solo, section ensembles and full orchestra samples so the choice is yours depending on what you're after. The only real divisions are the articulations such as ARCs, Legato, Pizzicato, etc.
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I'm at about 75-80% memory when everything is loaded. I haven't run into any bottlenecks after that.
So 80% of 48GB is is 38GB, that is a LOT of samples to load into memory considering most actual raw samples may be around 5MB. Seems likely about right i'd say.
As mentioned, from most of the plugins I have used over the years and a reason I kind of steer away from kontakt based instruments now is it is not very efficient at handling large amounts of samples. Consider too that all instances may be trying to load into memory all at the same time too. Kontakt in a few instances is fine, in many instances I have found it grinds to a halt.
I have my Komplete library on an external USB3.x Enclosure. Not Ideal, but it's what I deal with
Well, that is the first thing i'd try and rectify for better speed. Not all "USB3" enclosures are the same, nor are all USB cables for transfer, and also depends on exactly what drive is in that too. If your question is about reducing time to load into memory, you really should be considering having a quality and fast SSD connected internally in your machine. The USB side is your bottleneck in this case.
That memory server thing looks interesting. I'll have to have a look at that.
Won't make a lick of difference, it was designed for 32bit hosts and everyone for a decade has been on 64bit, if anything you need to check that it is set OFF. Best you could attempt is to not load into memory but stream from disk which you have to open Kontakt then go to the Memory tab and enable the "Buffer Override" option and set a small value for that. What Kontakt should then do is load a small amount of the sample to memory allowing it to play the sound initially while it then starts streaming from disk. However, what will likely happen here is your instruments will either stutter or some will miss notes completely/not play because the USB side is the bottleneck.
You need to kind of accept if you want to do what is considered high demand setups, you have to have a system designed for the task. You appear to have a Windows based desktop computer, just install a NVME drive or at least a decent SATA connected drive. Just don't expect it to suddenly make things load instantly, you may shave off a minute or maybe 2.
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+45.8 to everything Jester says.
I'd probably replace that drive with an SSD and maybe upgrade the cables too.
But it's STILL gonna be slow, so make some coffee or tea when you're getting ready to load.
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Again, my only problem here is the initial load. Everything else runs fine (so far).
My whole system is SSD/NVMe(I do have a 4 disk archive enclosure running 3 mechanical drives and 1 SSD, but that's for long-term storage) The SSDs (if not connected directly to my motherboard) are in a 4-drive enclosure with cables built specifically for high-speed data transfer and are connected to a high speed transfer port on the back of my mobo. Will never be as fast as a direct SATA connection to my mobo, and unfortunately this mobo doesn't have an eSATA connection, but it's pretty fast. An alternative kontakt library (or an alternative to kontakt) that would allow me to load 1 instance that I could connect to different audio channels would probably be my best alternative at this point.
Sorry for the late replies. Gold-fish-focus.
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I wish everything wasn't so "a la carte" I'm getting ready to take advantage of the 15% discount, but the only things I see so far are Adastra Strings Ensemble and Symphonic Shadows Bundles. This leaves hole in my orchestra. I guess I could fill them with Kontakt, but I'm hoping for more of a turn-key solution, if possible.
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Again, my only problem here is the initial load. Everything else runs fine (so far).
Yep, that is what we were discussing, the time to load 30+ GB of samples into memory.
If you are confident that your libraries are on the best NVME drive, your memory is fast and correctly configured and system wise everything is optimal for your needs, issue is then Kontakt and the amount of data that has to be loaded into memory.
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