Any experience to run a Rane Twelve mk2 with DVS in Traktor Pro 3 and Mac OSX 11 Big Sur

Bastman
Bastman Member Posts: 7 Newcomer

hey folks,

since two weeks I try to link a Rane Twelve mk2 to my MacBook Pro with OSX 11 as DVS controller for Traktor Pro 3. As mixer I use a pioneer dim-800. As interface I purchased a used NI Audio 4 DJ to do the trick. But I was disappointed since I then found out NI is not supporting the interface under OSX 11 (Big Sur) any more. Traktor simply cannot find it in the audio output menu.

Now I’m really struggling if it will be possible to run the set-up I want to (use one Rane twelve to control 2 scratch decks on Traktor Pro 3). It seems that there are little to no supported soundcards any longer on the market, everything was build into DVS mixers now, which I reject, I mean to buy a new mixer. I love my djm-800.

my questions: are there any interfaces out there working under Big Sur doing the trick? Does an interface needs to be a specific one for DVS, or does it simply play no role at all, also if an interface is branded? To put different, if an interface has some inputs, it will work and deliver the DVS time code signal, there are no specifications about the signal from one OEM to the other. Is that the right answer? I requested Rekordbox already and customer support says their interface supports Rekordbox only. Reloop Flux would be an interesting interface, but this one is branded to Serato. All Serato interfaces SL 1-4 are not supported under Mac OSX Big Sur, I checked with Rane customer support already.

second question: both decks in Traktor need the time code signal coming from the interface and receiving it from the controller via the input RCAs. If I have only one Rane twelve, can I tell Traktor in the input routing menu to use for both decks the same input connection? Does Traktor allows to use one signal twice? Because I have only one RCA out on my Rane. These DVS controllers were rather made for battle djing and therefore the use of two Rane’s. Potentially what I plan to do is a bit out of the box, I mean to have only one Rane in use. Alternatively, In case Traktor needs two different inputs routed for the two decks, what about to split via Y RCA cable the input signal coming from the Rane, and connect the now two input signals to the corresponding plugs at the interface? Would that do the trick? Any opinion? I mean it’s still the same signal, but now entered in two different input sections of the sound card.

final question. If that above all would work, do I need specific time code vinyls also for the Rane? I mean with the package, one Rane time code vinyl was delivered. But does Traktor request its own “language”, I mean time code vinyls? This question goes a little bit in the direction of the other question if the time code signal is manufacturer specific.

I’m quite a newby regarding DVS. Please excuse this partly basic questions.

many thanks in advance for your opinions or even experience. If I get this not solved within next two days I will send the Rane back and perceive my own project as dismissed.

Answers

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,860 mod
    edited February 28

    There are tons of class-compliant interfaces out there, those will work with any OS version since they don't need drivers, from NI I guess you need to get them used, for example:

    • TRAKTOR AUDIO 6 
    • TRAKTOR AUDIO 10

    NI Audio 4 DJ is not on the class-compliant list, hence why it doesn't work.

    A Rane 12 only controls the movement of the tracks it has nothing to do with how the DJ SW outputs the actual Audio.

    Reloop Flux would be an interesting interface, but this one is branded to Serato. All Serato interfaces SL 1-4 are not supported under Mac OSX Big Sur, I checked with Rane customer support already.

    Most things in the DVS world are Serato branded now, it doesn't mean it won't work with Traktor since it's open to any interface unlike Serato itself but the USB-only connection won't work in Traktor just like MWM Phase and such solutions but the RCA option is open for you.

    Read this:

    If I have only one Rane twelve, can I tell Traktor in the input routing menu to use for both decks the same input connection? Does Traktor allows to use one signal twice? Because I have only one RCA out on my Rane. These DVS controllers were rather made for battle djing and therefore the use of two Rane’s.

    Not necessarily just "battle", it's just regular DJing with two separate deck controls... Splitting an RCA Out is generally a bad idea from my experience, it makes the signal very quiet which can lead to problems. Also, the same signal can't control 2 decks because if you do something in deck 1 it would also apply to deck 2, so... what's the point? You'd touch the platter and it affects both decks... Unless you keep switching one deck to internal as a workaround, then switch again when blending the next song.

    EDIT: Propper answer below by @Owner : here.


    final question. If that above all would work, do I need specific time code vinyls also for the Rane?

    You could glue a piece of round cardboard there and it would be fine, there is no needle to actually read any time code so what's on the record doesn't matter... The one that comes with the Twelve is not even a and actual vinyl, it's a blank piece of acrylic...


    Wait for an experienced Traktor user to reply because I am on the Serato camp and there might be 1 or 2 things I got wrong.

  • Bastman
    Bastman Member Posts: 7 Newcomer

    Many many thanks for your reply.

    there are two things crossing my mind reading your answers. Regarding splitting the input signal. I buy your argument the signal gets quiet. But I just want to refer to what I’m planning to have. It’s not to control both decks simultaneously via time code, but the Rane Twelve comes with deck selection buttons 1-4, so I thought I could change decks on the fly between 1 and 2 in my case whichever is needed. The question is if it harms if the time code signal gets quiet after splitting, if it’s working despite of being quiet.

    second regarding class compliment. I studied NI help and support pages as well. I think the one you cite refers only to the iOS which means the operating system on mobile devices like the iPad. I’m looking for OS on the computer, and i just think there is another page confirming Traktor Audio 6 or 10 is working with Big Sur OS. I’m just not allowed to post corresponding link here .

    Best

  • Owner
    Owner Member Posts: 299 Pro
    edited February 28

    Hey @Bastman

    I also saw your post in another thread and already gave a short answer to your question there.

    The sound card does not need to have a phono preamplifier, as the RANE Twelve MKII output a line signal. Therefore you can e.g. also take a ESI Maya 44+ or something else.

    Otherwise, @D-One has already given you a correct answer to almost everything. For example. Traktor is open for all sound cards. You just have to make sure it is either class compliant or there are drivers for MacOS 11 and higher.

    Looking at the video about the decks that he linked, I'm not entirely sure whether it works the same way with the MKII or whether the spindle has a different technology (this are MKI players in this tutorial). But with a little googling you'll definitely find out. There are tons of custom options online.

    The only thing I would like to add to his answers: The Rane Twelve are already properly mapped so that you can easily change the players' decks in Traktor. If you switch from Deck A to Deck B, Deck A simply continues playing internally and the timecode now controls Deck B. In Traktor you can set this up in the channel routing settings. By the way: You can theoretically control 4 decks with one Rane Twelve. If you get a corresponding sound card with four stereo outputs, it might be quite fun for you because you have a 4 channel mixer.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,860 mod
    edited February 28

    No prob! My bad, I completely forgot the Twelve's have deck assignment buttons, Owner corrected me! No need for hacky workarounds like RCA splitting.

    Regarding class compliance: Ignore the iOS part, it doesn't matter... it just so happens that iOS also only supports class-compliant interfaces (because you can't install custom drivers on phones) so it matches your requirements aswell. But, you could also buy a non-class-compliant interface that needs drivers for your old MacOS version but if you go with a class-compliant one you will never have problems in case you upgrade your OS in the future.

  • Bastman
    Bastman Member Posts: 7 Newcomer

    Gents,

    quick update. I received a used Traktor Audio 6 today and good news, Traktor identifies it in Big Sur as expected. I had also first spins with the Rane and it works with the DVS as well. I can also route the only input/time code signal I have from the Rane to both decks, Traktor allows this. The switch of decks is not working properly as hoped, but I have to admit I had only little time today to check if the interface is working and everything in general. I’ll spend more time tomorrow and let you know the outcome. I think I have to invest more time in calibration and so on.

  • Owner
    Owner Member Posts: 299 Pro

    maybe you didn't load the mapping for the Twelves in Traktor? Do you set the in- and out ports correctly?

  • Bastman
    Bastman Member Posts: 7 Newcomer

    Gents,

    Final update I guess. Now I spend more time and it works completely as wished. As mentioned before I can assign only one input source to the two virtual decks. And the Rane switches without problems between the two decks, leaving one deck on touched in play whereas I can work in the meanwhile with timecode on the other. Of course in case of switching back to the playing deck it would be better two have a second device. But since I’m playing mostly electronic music I’m fine with doing one switch and that’s it. Son completely as intended.


    hence, I’ll keep the Rane. Just ordered a real control vinyl to respond on one D-One’s comment before. And that s it.


    many thanks again for your thoughts and contributions. Helped me a lot.


    best

  • decat_Tf
    decat_Tf Member Posts: 22 Member

    Why did you order a real control vinyl? These are intended to be used on real turntables like a Technics but have no use case on a Rane Twelve. The real control vinyls contain the timecode signal which is send to the interface when the needle of the turntable is riding in the grooves of the control vinyl. The needle reads the timecode signal, just like a real vinyl.

    On the Rane the time code signal is built in and controlled by manipulating the platter. On the Rane the timecode signal must be seen a an mp3 / wav file. When a file is loaded in a deck you can move / manipulate the position of track with your mouse by clicking on it and holding it, then move left or right. When you use the platter of the Rane it's in fact replacing the mouse, or the needle on a real control vinyl.

    And you can assign up to 4 decks in Traktor. I'm using a Rane 12 MKII since a year orso and I love playing on it, way more than the Technics + control vinyl which I'm using as another deck.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,860 mod

    It doesn't matter, as long as you poke the 3 holes and it rotates anything can do, even a thin round piece of wood... For someone who likes the feel/touch of an actuall vinyl/control record VS an acrylic imitation, the mod is a must... I'd do it too.

  • decat_Tf
    decat_Tf Member Posts: 22 Member

    To which part of my text are you referring? 😛

    Could be the control vinyl part. I know whatever what can be used to control the platter, on some Youtube video I saw someone mentioning the swap with a real vinyl. But to use a new time code vinyl for it.. Anyhow it ain't my money.

    I have actually never stood still between the difference of the 'fake' Rane vinyl and a real vinyl. In my experience the Rane is easy to manipulate. It's light, spinning the Rane one backwards to the start of the track really quick and when arriving at the beginning releasing it on beat without cueing is easy peasy. Something which is impossible on my Technics, I know it's not good for the time code vinyl or the needle but it avoids the somewhat 'long' lead in time when lifting the needle. Especially on those moments were you know that lifting the needle, reposition it at the beginning, waiting for the lead in etc equals missing the start of the phrase.

    There's probably some vinyl here I won't mind making three holes in, or maybe a worn control vinyl. You made me curious, going to try it soon. 😎

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,860 mod
    edited March 20

    Yes, that part. IDK, I never tried those blank records but I reckon that for people used to a certain feel for decades using a different surface/texture affects their performance, or maybe some people just want a customized look like different color records and whatnot. A special edition colored vinyl (with actual music) is usually way more expensive than a colored tone/control record.

    I'd do it for the looks alone as I use transparent records with groves only on one side, so I can add cue stickers on the back, if it's on the front I'd touch the stickers, if I bought some Rane12's I'd use those.

    Can't say I ever had any issues releasing on beat on technics tho.

  • Bastman
    Bastman Member Posts: 7 Newcomer

    Gents,

    I had no time so far to check after I bought the vinyls but your most recent comments made me curious. So timecode vinyl I bought (Serato) works very well. Video of DJ Mostyles fully confirmed. I only don’t get the need of drilling the holes to attach this lock from Rane on the vinyl. It just works good also without. Any hint on that? But regarding the timecode Signal, all well delivered as described in the video and in your comments @D-One .

    Best

  • decat_Tf
    decat_Tf Member Posts: 22 Member
    edited March 21

    Releasing on beat on the Technics isn't a problem either here.

    Wait I meant is that while you're quickly backspinning to the start of the track (not minutes but just a couple of beats after releasing the disc at the wrong point / phrase) this goes way lighter / easier on the Rane then on the Technics.

    And I can confirm it's disc related. Just did the swap and installed a Traktor timecode vinyl on the Rane, and now it behaves just like the Technics.

    The lock fixes itself through a spring-loaded 'pin' in the spindle. Once the pin fixes itself in the spindle it's aligned with the first cue point / start of the track and also with the white line on the Rane disc. The cue point will always be on the same place and comes in handy when using cue stickers as @D-One mentioned.

    When the disc is not attached to the lock it will never be or stay aligned with the cue point / white marker. Whether it will cause problems or not depends on the mixing style I guess.

    The misses is off to bed, time to test the 'mod'. 😎

  • Bastman
    Bastman Member Posts: 7 Newcomer

    Hi,

    understood. Might be the case the holes are needed for the last step to full precision. And you are right, I guess for my mixing style (House) it works for the moment exactly as intended. But I will further test it and report.

    For the moment I’m really happy that everything worked out like intended. It was a great fuss to come to this point.

    Best

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