Sound card temperature sensitivity issue? DPC watchdog violation crashes Windows with a bluescreen

wayfinder · 2024-02-26T10:12:03+00:00

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I have three sound cards from NI: Traktor Audio 2 Mk I (old), Traktor Audio 10 (a bit newer), and Komplete Audio 2 (very new). All of them have the same problem: whenever I air the room and the temperature drops (a little! just a handful of degrees - I'm not turning the place into a freezer by any means), they become extremely unreliable - sound drops, USB connection drops, ultimately the system halts completely, with a bluescreen: "DPC watchdog violation" -> reboot necessary, unsaved data lost. this happens with all three of my cards. As the room warms up again after I close the window, the problems continue until (I assume) the hardware reaches a temperature equilibrium again. Usually that comes out to around two further bluescreens/reboots. depending on unknown circumstances, they also sometimes forget their ASIO settings and revert to minimum latency, which means broken sound. Even hours later, the cards will still sometimes do their little

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...and die, and have to be disconnected/reconnected or even powercycled before they will work again. It happened twice today, five and six hours after the initial temperature event. It's not good.

Now: Is there anything to be done about this? Would it harm the hardware to have it run in something like an oven mitt perpetually? Does anyone else have these issues? Is there help to be had?

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wayfinder

This is the day of the aftershocks now. I've had three reboots from Native Instruments Hardware related DPC watchdog violation bluescreens today, one losing me actual work. At this point, it's grown from a nuisance to an actual frickin problem. How can I protect myself against these crashes?

Kubrak

I guess, it is more probably problem of computer than of interfaces.... Maybe hardware problem, of SW conflicts or the both.

You might try to lowlevel reformat disks, or at least check them. And make clean reinstall of OS and SW. It might help, or no.

Also, if you have different USB ports, you may try one by one, if certain will work OK. Or get computer repaired or throw it to the trash...

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/27043/sound-card-temperature-sensitivity-issue-dpc-watchdog-violation-crashes-windows-with-a-bluescreen

Reading this What is DPC Watchdog Violation? I am left with the impression that I know far too little about your hardware both internal (in PC) and external (outside PC housing). We are talking about electronics connected via USB and relying on drivers connected to a piece of electronics (motherboard? , laptop ?) with other peripherals connected that could also possibly be influenced by the temperature variations. You know , you could be right that you have a problem with these KA interfaces but then again it could also be something completely different ! I can take a hazardous wild guess at this (please avoid getting to close while I do this 😉) : When temperature drops in the room then if the power supply unit on your computer gets this change in air temperature then that could lead to a rather sudden shift in performance , and the same goes for other components, but if e.g. voltages to the USB ports changes then that could cause peripherals to act up , and so could it if a temperature variation makes devices consume more power ! I mean I don't know , but I just think that your problem is something that might warrant further investigation rather than just assuming faulty KA units !

And as you yourself writes then "a little! just a handful of degrees - I'm not turning the place into a freezer by any means" so maybe you ought to perform some more experiments , like using another computer , less load on same , I don't know . If the KA units can also run using a hub then try using a self powered hub and connect that to the computer and all the KA units to the hub. I mean try to shuffle it up a little. I probably would not be of much more help where I am even if supplied more information , but I can urge you to investigate so that you may be able to confirm or disprove your suspicion!

wayfinder

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136392#Comment_136392

This happens on both my 2015 desktop and my 2023 laptop. I will not completely upend my systems and reinstall everything unless I know that that will help. This is terrible advice. A complete shot in the dark, you have literally ZERO idea what's going on, and you want me to do a low level reformat of my hard drives, a clean reinstall of EVERYTHING, or throw my hardware away, on what info or authority? Your fricking GUESS?? are you insane?!!?!

wayfinder

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136413#Comment_136413

Yes, I have been doing these things. What you were reading is the result of literally months of testing - in fact, the WHOLE ENTIRE REASON I have three sound cards in the first place is that this very problem made me buy more hardware, because I thought there was a faulty unit, and other sound cards would not have this problem. I have rotated through all my USB ports - on some, the Traktor Audio 10 would not work at all, so there are definitely differences, but when the cards work, I can reliably reproduce the effect in all three pieces of hardware, with the exact same behavior, on two wildly different computers running different operating systems. I am a fairly thorough person, and I don't usually write this kind of post at the beginning of a journey.

Thank you for the link. There are things in there which I have not yet tried, and I will do further testing. I don't currently have a powered USB hub in reach, although perhaps - does a monitor with USB extensions count?

wayfinder

I can tell you this much, it wasn't the SATA driver - I updated that to the standard Windows one, as described in the link above, rebooted, went to answer @PoorFellow, and the system crashed again *as I was writing the post above*

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136450#Comment_136450

I am sorry if I in anyway offended you. Me not knowing you personally and not being a mind reader of course had no idea what you had already done that were not described in the initial post. And of course I do not doubt that you are a thorough person when told that you are !

As for the the Traktor Audio 10 would not work at all on some USB ports then that alas is typical as far as I am concerned that some units do not work on some ports and is not necessarily related to your other problems. With respect to the USB via monitor then I couldn't tell since that again would depend entirely on the product in question including the quality.. I have not looked into it but I would be rather surprised if any of the KA interfaces are faster than USB 2 , and a powered USB 2 shouldn't set you that seriously back even if of fair quality. I have looked into this myself a while back and where I have had the opportunity to shop then the problem were more than most of it were not self powered supplying ample power to the USB units most were just sort of port multipliers drawing power for computer , which is not what we want here ! Anyway , worth trying a powered hub , but by no means sure that it will make any difference. Also , one could get a self powered USB 3 hub or even a self powered USB-C with a set of A to C adapters (plus a C to A to PC ?) but that's a more expensive solution to start with though could be greater to have later !? This one looks great to me with the ports that it got (If in Europe then power adapter is not guaranteed to fit)(Note: Products with electrical plugs are designed for use in the US. Outlets and voltage differ internationally and this product may require an adapter or converter for use in your destination. Please check compatibility before purchasing.) and as a rather cheap thing to try !

wayfinder

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136455#Comment_136455

Thank you again, please don't worry - I'm sorry if I made it sound like I was offended. Nothing like that is the case, I'm just exasperated because this is happening right now and preventing me from working on music that I should be working on, and I thought it was under control for a few months.

Kubrak

You did not write, that you have tested it on two computers, as well that you have tested different USB ports.

It is pretty unprobable that three NI audio interfaces would be faulty in a way it forces bluescreen.

Anyway USB device should not cause bluescreen. There is either problem in low level driver, OS or HW of computer.

If some USB ports work and some do not is strange. For me the sign that there is something wrong with given computer.

And about how big temperature drop do you talk? Generally, some electronic elements are temperature sensitive. And some are sensitive if they are becoming wrong. They work OK at certain temperature and not so well at other one...

D-One

The same issue on 2 computers and 3 interfaces is quite puzzling, I never heard of a handful of degrees of lower ambient temp causing any sort of issue like this... I doubt it's really the temps.

Would it harm the hardware to have it run in something like an oven mitt perpetually?

It's not particularly advisable but since Traktor interfaces have no vents moderate heat shouldn't hurt. It's designed to withstand temps in clubs which can go from cold when empty to hot as heck when packed.

Is there anything particular about your setup? Lots of things connected to the same power strip? Really long USB cables? Very humid room? I reckon you tried multiple USB ports and cables already.

I think I'd borrow a friend's laptop for a day to test if the interfaces work fine, maybe a Mac in your case to be completely different from your system, if it works it means the interface hw itself is fine and you can proceed to debug your computers.

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136445#Comment_136445

Without knowing you had 2 computers what he said is not bad advice assuming you have a backup. It's a guess like any other, no reason to get mad, this should be last resort tho.

Since you have a desktop you can just buy an extra cheap SSD (maybe even used) to do a clean Windows install without formating your current drive, this way you avoid the trouble of doing backups/restores, should cost you no more than 25 bucks if you go for lower GB sizes and would rule out one possibility... On a fully clean system you rule the possibility of some other software/driver interfering with your setup; up to you tho.

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136445#Comment_136445

Quote : "This happens on both my 2015 desktop and my 2023 laptop."

Sounds to me as if you pulled the USB plugs out of one computer and put them into the other. This makes me want to ask the question : what was attached to the various audio interfaces when all this were happening ? , were the units attached to the KA audio interfaces turned on ? , what else if anything were attached to the computers ?

Also , I just read the manual for the KA6 (old version) , which says "It is a stand-alone device which draws power from the USB connection of your computer. Thus, an external power supply is unnecessary." , and I seriously doubt that it is different with KA1 and KA2 . So in the end then if one of these devices for whatever reason should e.g. overload one port (or make drivers fail ?) then maybe it can have a cascade effect ?

quote : "I can reliably reproduce the effect in all three pieces of hardware, with the exact same behavior, on two wildly different computers running different operating systems. "

Was that one interface after another or all at the same time and did you have same equipment attached to audio interface(s) while testing or no equipment ? (just checking)(trying to get the full picture)

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