List of MacOs Sonoma glitchy NI plugins/libraries

Calagan
Calagan Member Posts: 143 Advisor

Hi there

I'm using a recent M1 pro Mac and because of a stupid Apple issue I was forced to update from Monterey to MacOs Sonoma. So far almost everything seems to run fine, even with devs that don't recommend updating to Sonoma, but I have some issues with somes plugins (Plugin Alliance and NI ones mainly).

Among the Native Instruments plugins that have issues, I noticed that it's very difficult to pinpoint clearly a culprit, especially that for exemple some Kontakt libraries are ok but others are not. I was thinking it could interest NI users on this forum to share some plugins, Kontakt libraries or Reaktor devices that make problem on Sonoma (or more widely on ARM Macs).

If it happens some of you don't have the same issues on similar set up (machine, OS, DAW...), it means I've got other problems and sharing these infos could help me or other users refine their setup and find other causes for their issues...

Here are my finding so far :

  • Kontakt 6.7.1 seems to be ok in general (I don't have systematic issues with it)
  • Inside Kontakt, I've got some issues with Una Corda, generating random CPU spikes
  • Reaktor 6.5 seems to be ok in general (I don't have systematic issues with it)
  • But inside Reaktor, I've got issues with Rounds, generating CPU spikes even when not doing nothing. It's truly the most annoying issue I've got, because on recent sessions I use Rounds a lot and even on stage. It was not like that before (Monterey), and even not like that on an old mid-2012 laptop I was using (and still use)...

My setup is the following :

Macbook pro M1 pro (2021 model) / 16 inches / 2To drive / 32Gb RAM

Mac Os Sonoma 14.1

Live 11.3.10

Please share your own experience with Sonoma (or ARM Macs). If you can use the same layout (list of issues or positive experiences, then setup with machine/OS/Daw) it will make the reading better for everyone...

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Comments

  • Calagan
    Calagan Member Posts: 143 Advisor

    By the way, I made a video of my issues with Rounds for the NI support...

    If interested, you can check it on youtube : https://youtu.be/QPIOcYJr-J4?si=_x9dyvLsGFeWIbFm

    The CPU spike are not huge (it peaks to 40-50%, when the set is empty and running around 2-3%), but in the context of a dense Live set, it can easily produce CPU overload, with the usual consequences (in my case, audible clicks)...

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,458 Expert
    edited December 2023

    The biggest and only serious issue for me is graphics glitches with quite a few plugins (including Arturia, Korg, Cherry Audio, AAS) in Komplete Kontrol in Logic - this can lead to missing elements of the gui or streaks. It may be partially a Logic issue as it is not affecting other hosts and it does not seem to have been an issue that was present at first in Sonoma but maybe just since 14.1 or Logic 10.8 (seemed to appear round about then)

  • Calagan
    Calagan Member Posts: 143 Advisor

    I don't use Komplete Kontrol and I don't use Logic, so I can't comment on that.

    I don't have any graphic glitch on my system...

    Do you use Rounds or Una Corda ? Did you notice any strange CPU behavior ? If not, it may be related to my setup (Ableton Live, or something else specific to my system)

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 826 mod

    Personally I've not had problems on Sonoma, but I'm still in the Intel world (Mac Mini 2018). From what I've been reading it seems like a lot of the issues are probably related to the new M chips. But on Intel, stuff is generally OK.

    -- Mike

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,458 Expert

    I don't use them much but do have them so just tested in Live, no spiking as far as I can see

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,458 Expert
    edited December 2023

    tbh in my experience on the whole Sonoma is much better at making full use of the Mx chips than Ventura was, in particular it seems better at load balancing, better at assigning performance cores and much better at making use of the GPU (seeing this in my graphics apps) - I guess that's to be expected as the OS has now matured around the M series chips.

  • Calagan
    Calagan Member Posts: 143 Advisor

    mmm. Strange. So you don't notice what my video is showing ? Not even small CPU spikes ?

    It's particularly obvious (on my system) with Rounds with the default preset. I'll try to search elswhere...

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,458 Expert
    edited December 2023

    Sorry didn’t realise you’d done a video, I’ll take a deeper look after work

    I do have a M1 Max MacStudio with max RAM and GPU cores so maybe the extra headroom makes a difference, or maybe it’s the RME drivers?

  • Calagan
    Calagan Member Posts: 143 Advisor
    edited December 2023

    Please take a look at the video. Maybe because of your specs you didn't notice it if just dropped Rounds on a track... But on my machine, when the set is crowded and I use 3 or 4 different instances of Rounds, it matters...

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,458 Expert

    OK I tried, 4 tracks at 96khz like in your video, buffer set to 128 - didn't even use the Fireface drivers this time, just the built in Apple drivers, but could not get it to glitch even once - CPU steady between 13-14%

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/xn85n3wq1k2p6io/Screen%20Recording%202023-12-08%20at%2021.03.51.mov?dl=0

  • Calagan
    Calagan Member Posts: 143 Advisor

    Damn !

    I noticed that your Live CPU meter is set to average (not to current) so it doesn't shows the quick spikes and I can notice a fluctuation of the CPU use in the Reaktor's meter (the yellow barely visible dot bar behind the % numbers). But it's much less than on my system, and I don't think the M1 max can explain that...

    Maybe it's a strange interaction with other plugins (even when they are not used in the session), or maybe a setting I did somewhere...

    I did send many informations to the support, I don't have much hope from this side, but who knows...

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,458 Expert
    edited December 2023

    I can try again with the meter but I’m not hearing clicks for sure - the tiny fluctuations are probably no more than me using more or less fingers to play

    Sometimes bugs are about subtle interactions between multiple variables - it’s the main reason why such bugs tend to slip through beta tests

    One thing you could try is sharing a project you know has the glitches and people here can try that

  • Calagan
    Calagan Member Posts: 143 Advisor

    Thanks for the interest in my problems, but it seems to be something more than just NI : I've got actually issues as soon as I drop a Rounds instance in an empty Live session, doing nothing... So there's no need to share a projet. If you don't have issues on a more or less similar setup (at least, it's an ARM Mac running Sonoma), it means my issues are more complex than just Rounds...

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,743 Expert

    I am not on Mac, but the spikes might be due to thread is temporarily allocated to e-core by OS and returned back to p-core fast. Try to evaluate if the size of spikes is proportional to core performance of p-cores versus e-cores.

    And do you have dropouts or you just fear you might have? Because, those spikes might happen to avoid dropouts on other threads....

    The spike does not have to mean plugin needs more CPU that time, those spikes mean program needs more time to compute task. It shows the weakest performance per core of audio processing not overall performance of all cores. And mix of e-cores and p-cores makes things even more "fuzzy".

    On Win developer of program may limit OS how to allocate CPU cores to its threads. Or user may deactivate e-cores or he may use third party SW to navigate OS which cores should be used in given SW.

    But I guess none of that exists on Mac. I do not know how it is now, but at the beginning even SW developers could not "navigate" OS which cores use and which not. Maybe it has changed later on....

    Simply, big-little brings problems if not handled with understanding and care.

  • Calagan
    Calagan Member Posts: 143 Advisor

    The spikes are only showed on the Live CPU meter.

    If I check the activity monitor and open the window "history of processor", I don't see any spike. The problem is I "hear" them : with each spike I can hear a small click or a very quick glitch. So I'm not afraid of them, they manifest and make the faulty session impossible to use on stage for exemple.

    Regarding the e-cores and p-cores, in the "history of processor" window the e-cores are at low level. Nothing strange. Maybe it's a switch from e-core to p-core : if it's this, it's an apple bug because it shouldn't act like that (as far as I know).

    And it's strange that it's acting like that only with Rounds. I can run many Diva or Repro instances without any issues in all my sessions...

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