Time to tell the truth about NI after 20 years in the business

NI-SUX
NI-SUX Member Posts: 9 Member
edited September 2023 in Maschine

I loved NI Maschine. It was a must-have, but...

Today, I strongly advise staying away from NI.

There is no support and no care at all.

They focus solely on selling music banks, as if we actually cared about that!

Their products are expensive and have very little use. Sometimes they even sell VSTs you already owned from 10 years ago, but NI collaborates with other companies to resell you the very same stuff you had already purchased! They're thieves!

Their commercial policies are competitive and abusive.

There's often no backward compatibility!

They ripped us off over 32-bit VSTs that are now unusable! It's great for those who spent money on them and now can't use them or even get a refund.

Now I'm stuck with NI because I can't work on my tracks with the newest versions of their software. They removed options, and the expansions or VSTs you bought from them are now unusable. Do you think they will make it right, offer refunds, or provide any compensation? Hell no! They don't care and they aren't listening.

Do not get involved with NI! It has been the worst experience ever, especially if you are a beginner. I have 20 years of experience with DAW and making music, and all you'll do is spend money over and over until you realize you're being taken advantage of!

I used to own an Audio4, which I used for mixing and producing. Now you need two soundcards, one for production and one for mixing, as if any soundcard couldn't handle both. NI locks you in and forces you to get two soundcards if you want to DJ and produce, or get Maschine. It's all about spending money. I hope greed consumes NI!

If you're a professional, stick with what you know and stay away from NI products!

This is the best advice you'll get!

Massive, Kontakt, Komplete... it's all a con! I owned most of these VSTs since their early versions when they weren't owned by NI. Little by little, they integrated many VST plugins into Kontakt, Komplete, or Massive, or whichever user interface they decided to force upon you, which is nothing but a sort of VST bank, doubling the processing power... makign your production experience a real consumerism circus

I'll stop here because this is not rage; it's a piece of advice to anyone considering purchasing an NI product: just don't do it. There are better options out there!

Hey NI, prove me wrong! Let's debate this and see if you are morally inclined to do what's best for users! I SERIOUSLY doubt it.

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Comments

  • lord-carlos
    lord-carlos Member Posts: 2,318 Expert

    Now Im stuck with NI

    Can't you transfer the tracks over to a daw and where from there? And sell Maschine.

    I used to own an AUDIO 4 with which I was mixing and producing .... now you cant you must have 2 soundcard

    Why do you now need 2 soundcards?

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,249 Expert

    Well… the solution for NI not fixing the bugs they have now is not suggesting to use another program. People paid money for NI products.

    And no producer will produce on a soundcard which has only unbalanced chinch outputs (but I must admit I don’t agree with OP on this point: when you buy it, you see what you buy and that it has only unbalanced outputs. So it’s your choice. But what he was trying to say is that everything they do is just to sell more. Which is in their right…but before NI was a company yes trying to make money, but respecting their customers. It was a company of musicians doing products for musicians. It isn’t anymore)

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 397 Pro

    It’s not as bad as you painted it. Also, some of us actually use drum kits from Maschine expansions so those are far from being useless.

  • NI-SUX
    NI-SUX Member Posts: 9 Member

    i Lord Carlos,

    Transferring a track to another DAW can be a solution, but what if you haven't bounced a specific track and it's running on your favorite FAT 32-bit VST? Well, the party is over! I have many tracks that I produced between 2008 and 2012, most of them using 32-bit VSTs. I can't work on them these days because I'm using 32-bit VSTs that are old and not compatible with the latest updates from NI.

    I understand that 32-bit VSTs are outdated technology and we can do better now, but what if all your work is based on that? How would you handle an update that makes most of your work unusable or not transferable to the next generation software? It's abusive, isn't it?

    Regarding the soundcard...

    Audio4 was one of the very first soundcards offered by NI, and it was the perfect tool as you could directly plug in your vinyl turntables to scratch and use Traktor to DJ in clubs. It was also a decent and affordable soundcard for production in DAWs like Logic 5.5, Ableton, Cubase, and others. However, NI quickly split the market between DJs and producers. This triggered a lot of frustrations for both producers and DJs.

    Over the years, NI started restricting the usage of their soundcard by locking it within their software, such as Traktor. It reached a point where Traktor was claiming my soundcard was not compatible for using vinyl (imagine my reaction after years of it working fine)! With each update, you could no longer use your Audio4 to run analog signals. You had to either update your soundcard or downgrade your usage from Traktor PRO-like features to basic Traktor functionality. This is how NI effectively split the market between DJing and producing. It made no sense when you're a music producer! Our goal back then was to mix our own tracks or perform live. Anyway, I hope I addressed your question.

  • NI-SUX
    NI-SUX Member Posts: 9 Member
    edited May 2023

    Would you tell a violonist is using obsolete technology to produce music ?

  • lord-carlos
    lord-carlos Member Posts: 2,318 Expert

    I want to know why he is stuck with NI. You can sell your license.

    He said he used to have an Audio4. I don't think that one had balanced out as well.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,249 Expert

    You are probably right. I just wanted to say the main point of OP post was about they don’t caring about nothing less than making money 👍🏻

  • NI-SUX
    NI-SUX Member Posts: 9 Member

    I could move on of course choose not to or bypass ... I mean producing music is like compiling different things using various tools so I'm not really agro or vindictive - I'm just pointing out the consumerism obsession at NI ... probably because 27 years ago when they came on the market it was insane refreshing and very good ... then after Maschine's success it all became a Consumerist Marketplace where they restricted many features or split them between DJ devices, Specific Soundcard sfor Recording Mixing Producing ... or integrating Soundcard into Maschine etc ... Basically building andf locking their empire up condemning artists to comply !!! and not the other way around !!!!

  • lord-carlos
    lord-carlos Member Posts: 2,318 Expert
    edited May 2023

    You can use any soundcard with Traktor Pro 3. It really does not care.

    If the signal is strong enough, I mean if it has a pre-amp, you can also use it for vinyl.

    Serato blocks certain soundcards if you want to use DVS.

  • awol9000
    awol9000 Member Posts: 69 Advisor

    32 bit VSTs are obsolete? I never saw that coming.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,868 mod
    edited May 2023

    I haven't seen a rant thread about 32-bit in a few years... This isn't really a NI-specific problem, In your shoes I would just have 2 OS partitions/HD's (dual boot) to have an outdated system with all the 32bit stuff, just to open older projects. Or get an old used laptop for that unique purpose. I understand you're angry right now but there are solutions.

    You need to handle this stuff when the transition is undergoing, the 32 to 64 transition was a long time ago, ideally one would track out all projects to audio or, as I said keep an old system around. We are going thru this right now with VST2 slowly going to die, anyone who doesn't handle it within the next few years and leaves it for 2030 will prob deeply regret it. Steinberg has some fault here too, they created VST so they could have done something to allow 64-bit plugins to load their 32-bit equivalent.

    If you really think NI is that bad then export all your music and stop using any products from them, vote with your wallet. I have many companies scratched from my list that I would never buy anything from again, Avid, Steinberg, Waves, Rane, to name a few... Just the other day there was a rant by someone about NI and in the same breath this person said he/she bought all products since the 2000's... basically supporting a company he/she hates... this baffles me.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,249 Expert

    Nice post kymeia. I would really like to be positive like you.

    My only concern is I always end up to think “why people like this are always users doing it for free while the ones paid for it simply don’t give a f? Or even worst: they don’t even take responsibilities for they duties…”

    And…2000 good willing users can’t change the fact that 2 bad CEO can make a company fail, leaving us without the products we love.

    it’s a sad sad situation

  • NI-SUX
    NI-SUX Member Posts: 9 Member

    Thank you all to jump into this matter - I can see, despite of course many solutions or bypass available, that in general we share the same views on how the industry is more market focus than user focused. I'd like to tone down the obvious disappointment here from NI and the industry in general.

    I also agree on the early transition from 32 to 64 bits systems and like many of you I surely use my 2 old computers now ... one from 2009 the most recent from 2015 and NOW it's time to move into more advanced technologies ... I'm right now in the market for a new computer with the eternal same questions ... MAC vs PC, will I be able to transfer all my NI licence from PC to MAC or will I have to pay again ? ... which is why after 20 years of productions it was time to speak the truth about NI

    Mind you I love the tools I love the dedication but I disrespect the marketing !!! it could be better more loyal with a long term visions

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 397 Pro

    32bit, 64Bit, VST2, Windows, Mac, Apple Silicon, FireWire, Thunderbolt, drivers, DAWs - everything comes and goes. Hardware breaks or the drivers are no longer being updated.

    Export MIDI files, export audio stems with all FX off, backup those to at least 2 different media, keep one onsite and another one offsite (can be cloud), sleep well.

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