Best way to use Komplete sounds on stage, live?

BnBrnx
BnBrnx Member Posts: 4 Newcomer
edited May 2023 in Tech Talks

Hello guys,

Probably a stupid question asked loads of times, but I can't fin a proper answer.

I'm a keyboard player currently using a Nord Stage 3, both for homeworking (midi controler, studio recording) and live concerts with my (indie rock) band.

I've bought several Komplete sounds years after years (una corda, noire, mysteria, thrill, giant, piano colors...) and used it a lot during our studio/recording sessions. I wish I could use these sounds live too, during our concerts.

Since I already use a lot of instruments on stage (SPD-SX pad, organelle, Nord Stage 3 with effects pedals) I don't want to add extra shitload of electronics and materials on stage during the shows. So, let's say I'm looking for the smaller/more practical/easily mobile setup.

What would be your advice ? Is it possible to manage Komplete sounds with (and store the sounds on) an iPad, linked to my Nord Stage? Or are a dedicated computer and sound card mandatory during the shows?

Is there a way to 'store' the sounds in a Komplete Kontrol keyboard, and use it live on stage (for example with a midi to jak adapter)?

Thanks for your help :)

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Best Answer

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert
    edited April 2023 Answer ✓

    No way to store them in the keyboard. Nor on iPad. Sounds are in the computer, created/reproduced by the computer, so, yes, the computer is mandatory.

    The iPad could be at best only used as a remote screen for the computer, with sounds that can come out of it, but in any case are produced by the computer. So you’ll need it anyway, even if eventually on the backstage. And it will introduce latency, practically making it unusable. At this point a Microsoft Surface would be better.

    If you are really interested in the iPad, know that it is becoming more and more a valid alternative to the PC, with instruments/synth that can rival some counterparts soft instruments. Or samplers to sample your NI instruments and then play them on iPad (which will not be exactly as playing the original versions). And often way cheaper or of the same quality. The advent of valid instruments on it is nowadays reality, with companies like Korg, Audiomodern, FabFilter, Klevgrand, IK Multimedia and many others porting or developing for it.

    But since you already have NI instruments I think you want to stick with them.

    So, in conclusion…to use them in a live situation the answer is: yes, a computer and an audio interface (possibly with midi in so you can use your Nord Stage, or with a midi controller like Komplete Kontrol keyboards) are necessary. A solution like the Surface (or if you already own one, your laptop) and a minimal audio interface with at least 2 outputs (if you don’t need it also for plugging in other instruments) is the most mobile solution I can think of.

    Or a Maschine+ with your instruments sampled in it with his Auto Sampler. But if you don’t want to play them with pads, you’ll have to plug a midi keyboard controller in it too, so in the end it would be the same as the computer with the controller.

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Answers

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert
    edited April 2023 Answer ✓

    No way to store them in the keyboard. Nor on iPad. Sounds are in the computer, created/reproduced by the computer, so, yes, the computer is mandatory.

    The iPad could be at best only used as a remote screen for the computer, with sounds that can come out of it, but in any case are produced by the computer. So you’ll need it anyway, even if eventually on the backstage. And it will introduce latency, practically making it unusable. At this point a Microsoft Surface would be better.

    If you are really interested in the iPad, know that it is becoming more and more a valid alternative to the PC, with instruments/synth that can rival some counterparts soft instruments. Or samplers to sample your NI instruments and then play them on iPad (which will not be exactly as playing the original versions). And often way cheaper or of the same quality. The advent of valid instruments on it is nowadays reality, with companies like Korg, Audiomodern, FabFilter, Klevgrand, IK Multimedia and many others porting or developing for it.

    But since you already have NI instruments I think you want to stick with them.

    So, in conclusion…to use them in a live situation the answer is: yes, a computer and an audio interface (possibly with midi in so you can use your Nord Stage, or with a midi controller like Komplete Kontrol keyboards) are necessary. A solution like the Surface (or if you already own one, your laptop) and a minimal audio interface with at least 2 outputs (if you don’t need it also for plugging in other instruments) is the most mobile solution I can think of.

    Or a Maschine+ with your instruments sampled in it with his Auto Sampler. But if you don’t want to play them with pads, you’ll have to plug a midi keyboard controller in it too, so in the end it would be the same as the computer with the controller.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert
    edited April 2023

    Or…if you have money to spend, the new Akai MPC keys 61, which has an auto sampler too


  • BnBrnx
    BnBrnx Member Posts: 4 Newcomer

    Awesome :) thanks for your clear (and fast) answer. Exactly the info I needed !

  • BnBrnx
    BnBrnx Member Posts: 4 Newcomer

    ...What do you mean by auto-sampler ?

    Do you mean transform each note / midi sounds to samples (.wav for example) and assign a sound to each key (if you use a piano sound for example) ? Despite the fact that it represents a shitload of work, wouldn't that annihiliate the possibilities of specificities of the sounds (sensitivity, length...) ?

    Either way, the price of an autosampler keyboard doesn't seem that big in comparison with a Surface + audio interface... :)

    (Thank you for taking the time to answer ! It's awesome.)

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert
    edited April 2023

    Maschine (or MPC) auto sampler (as the auto in the name implicit) makes the work automatically. You set up your preferences (note length, tail, how many velocity layers for every note, octaves extension, looping points, crossfading for the loop,…) and then starts to automatically to sample the instrument it is pointed to.

    So, depending on how many times you told it to sample each note, the work can be long, but not a lot of work. It does it for you.

    But yes: the sampled instrument will never be exactly like his source

    The MPC keys 61 is ~1700$, so…yes…a Surface and an interface is expensive. But you’ll have a computer which can do also other things and has a touchscreen. But to be fair, is correct to state that also the MPC is not only an auto sampler, but also a DAW, a series of synths, fxs, a pad controller and has an audio interface plus many other functionalities. So, you are correct, both choices have their pros and cons.

    If you already have another laptop, and knowing you already have the NI instruments, the first solution will be way cheaper than buying the MPC, since you’ll have to buy only the interface (or not even this if you already have one)

  • Mistertoad17
    Mistertoad17 Member Posts: 5 Member

    I get the problem but as LostInFoundation says you need a computer. In my previous life as an IT trainer I had to bridge gaps using toothpicks, sticky tape and egg cartons and often came up with quick and dirty ways to do what I wanted, rather than be limited by working conditions (Not expanding further on that in case I incriminate myself but you get the idea). That said I might have a way to do this whilst agreeing with Lost and giving you your iPad idea.

    Simple solution: Small laptop and an external USB hard drive. Install Native Access on the laptop, set the installation path in NA to the external drive and that's it, Bachman Turner Overdrive, "Let's rock".

    Messy but love a challenge solution: This will need a little investigating to make sure it would be up to the job for you, but you get to dress up as J.M.Jarre with laser gloves and welders goggles as you grab your iPad to access the Komplete Library.

    Thinking how I would go about this if Komplete would enhance my performance on stage and would make the audience faint with anticipation as nonchalantly grab your iPad, I would probably start with a Mac mini or compact PC thingy (sorry but I don't know what the correct name is but a PC in a tiny box like a Mac mini).

    The idea is that you set up the computer to do one job which is to auto boot without the computer expecting a screen to be connected. Then having done that Komplete Kontrol fires up on it's own at boot by adding it to your Startup list.

    To set it up to not expect the screen is done (from memory) in the BIOS of a PC. On a MAC I would expect it can be achieved in software these days. You will also need to allow screen sharing for the next bit.

    So far all of that is totally possible and will work every time. The next bit is in need of a little research but should be relatively straight forward.

    So the leap of faith is like this...

    ...There is an app for all platforms called Jump Desktop (https://jumpdesktop.com/). It doesn't just do screen sharing but also allows remote connections and is blisteringly fast. There will be other software that does this stuff.

    Jump Desktop also has the advantage of giving you touch control of desktop software by using an iPad. It has mouse and keyboard facilities built into Jump Desktop that is really intuitive and works with all desktop software that you have on the "remote" computer.

    This is initially messy, but once you set it up you get what you asked for, a Komplete Keyboard connected to the full library via Komplete Kontrol and on top of that it is all accessed using an iPad without wires.

    You would also have the added bonus of access to Maschine for DAW functionality whilst keeping all of this in a small box with just a mains cable

    Simple life is a small laptop and something like a WD passport drive with all the libraries on, you could even do the Jump Desktop stuff with the laptop if you wanted to use the iPad on stage. Requires a little work but at the end of the day it would do exactly what you want.

    Hope it helps, or maybe inspires someone else somehow

    Ade 😁

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert


    Here’s a video on how an auto sampler works

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert
    edited April 2023

    “So far all of that is totally possible and will work every time”. Sorry…but no…it will not work…

    Please. I know playing the genius scientist can be fun, but…when you suggest something to someone asking for help, say things you know and not things you would like, moving in the science fiction field.

    As I said, what you say with all your theories can already be done with one of the many simple Remote Desktop app. But latency in audio streaming is a thing (unlike in midi streaming).

    Replacing a computer and a screen with a computer (“I would probably start with a Mac mini or compact PC thingy’) with a lot of work and an iPad as a screen, which adds latency at makes it unusable is not a solution…

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert
    edited April 2023

    @Mistertoad17 I’m sorry if I sounded too rude. Didn’t mean to attack you. But reading back my comment I see that it could be interpreted in this way.

    I didn’t want to offend you, just…in this forum there is plenty of incorrect answers by people speculating on everything and these lead to not so experienced users being confused (who maybe will go spend their hardly gained money based on someone’s speculations) . One thing is to guess with a trial and error when someone has some malfunctioning and trying to rule out the causes by attempts of procedures to solve it. But I see too many “imaginative suggestions” on questions like the one here, where OP needed precise informations about how to set up a live situation.

    My apologies

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,475 Expert

    Don't always assume that your solution is the only "correct" one, others can also have an input, may not be 100% what you agree with or what the OP is after but may inspire someone else to do something a little different and i'd give at least some credit to the OP and other users that they can figure some things out for themselves.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert
    edited April 2023

    Ok… if you think I assumed my solution was the only correct…ok…

    (but I never said anything even similar to what you are accusing me).

    Since we are in a thread with very specific questions, can you answer them?

    Is it possible to manage Komplete sounds with (and store the sounds on) an iPad, linked to my Nord Stage ? Or are a dedicated computer and sound card mandatory during the shows ?

    Is there a way to 'store' the sounds in a Komplete Kontrol keyboard, and use it live on stage (for example with a midi to jak adapter) ?

    Please answer to these questions, so I can understand why I wrongly assumed my solution was the only correct

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,475 Expert

    if you think I assumed my solution was the only correct

    I try not to assume things, it tends to make an ******$ out of u and me :)

    I am referring to the fact the post from Mistertoad17 is simply a different suggestion which he has taken some time to offer from his own experience and nothing I read in his answer is wrong at all, maybe a little different/complex for the application but it IS a solution and one I have used myself before, just fine, tho not on stage. You can sit an ipad on the keyboard to simply use it to do some of the stuff you need a computer for without having a computer on stage, just to make it look more professional, I know of others round here who have also done this kind of thing.

    I would place some trust in the OP to decide if that solution is maybe too complex for them to look into or not, but gives them (and others) maybe an idea off what else could be possible.

    He actually suggested to use https://jumpdesktop.com/ which I have not heard of so that is something for me to check out.

    Please. I know playing the genius scientist can be fun, but…when you suggest something to someone asking for help, say things you know and not things you would like, moving in the science fiction field.

    That comes off as rather condescending since nothing he said is the stuff of "Science Fiction" at all, he seems to know that aspect quite well being in IT and has a vision of what could work. Now not saying that was your intent at all, but from this side of the screen that is how it reads and probably how the user has taken it given they seem to have flagged your post.

    in this forum there is plenty of incorrect answers by people speculating on everything and these lead to not so experienced users being confused 

    This is the comment where I see it that you feel your answers are the correct ones and a lot of others are just confusing the situation and making noise as if people can't figure things out for themselves and need someone to police all the correct stuff.

    Been here a long time myself and usually, if someone is confused they will ask a question and others will clarify, that is how communities work so don't feel you have to take on the burdon for how much others can/can't seem to understand, they are often smarter than you realise.

  • BnBrnx
    BnBrnx Member Posts: 4 Newcomer

    Many thanks to everybody for your help, accuracy and commitment :)

    All your messages completely answered my questions. I don't mind experimenting and trying stuff to get the results I want, but I get that the easiest/rational/practical solution indeed is the smallest computer possible and a sound device on stage. Also, it fits with my knowledge of computer science and my will to keep music as much as possible to the instruments more than to technology ;)

    Let's Hope Native will make it easier to use their sounds live on stage in the future... This would be a great improvement.

    Also, peace love and music my friends :) everybody just wanted to help, and that moves me. I'm sure no one wanted to hurt anyone, or suggest his opinion was the best. Keep making this chat great !

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,039 Expert

    Sorry for derailing a little bit your thread, but it seems I don't seem too likeable to someone, so they attack me sometimes. But I must admit this time my answer to @Mistertoad17 could sound a little rude (but as I said I did it just because I fear some less experienced users could waste their money on someone speculations, and we have a lot of them here)

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,762 Expert

    @BnBrnx

    If you do not mind Win, you might use MS Surface Pro instead of iPad. I have MS Surface Pro 7 (i5, 16GB RAM, 256 SSD) and it runs Kontakt fine. It is even passively cooled. (but only i5 up to Surface Pro 7+ included).

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