S88 Mk2 - Noisy Keys - Fixed - Instructions

rdalcroft
rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor
edited March 2022 in Komplete Kontrol

For anyone interested in the Clicky Key issue many of us have had. A high pitched rattle or click when you press the keys, or rub your hand along the keys..

Me I have sent my S88 Mk2 back to Native Instruments under warranty, because of this issue, but only for the issue to come back with a vengeance after 8 months.

The cause: After coming to the conclusion that it may be either a grease, or Lack of grease issue, I decided to purchase both Grease and Felt strips, just in case. I only wanted to open it up once. After watching a few Videos from Youtube (Linked at bottom of post)


The issue is there is almost no Grease on the posts, mine were almost completely dry. So there is no cushioning between the Keys and the inner post, its plastic on plastic, hence the loud click. So removed the keys 1 octave at a time, and greased the posts, I made sure to test each key as i put them back in, moving them laterally side to side to see if there was any movement or hitting of plastic. For the black keys there is a square slot, where i just filled this up with the grease rather than the post. But on the white keys there is no slot, so I greased the actual posts for those.. Very important to test them as you pot each key back in, as a few i had to remove and add more grease. You want no side to side movement when you test this with your finger.. gently though no force needed..

While i was there, i also cleaned the velocity membrane with alcohol, and a q tip for each octave, this is optional, but I thought since i was in there, it would not hurt to do so..

Description of the Lateral Motion.png

Picture below is how you remove each key. You force the key towards the back of the keybed, pushing down slightly at the pivot then lift up, the key comes off..

Removal of keys 1.png

Below showing the direction to push to release the keys, also the posts for each of the key types

Removal of keys.png

Below a better image of the posts with the grease on.. I snapped these from youtube, as i did not think to take pics while i was doing mine.. sorry for that, a missed opportunity for a video. I was a lot more liberal with the grease, than in these pics..

View of the Key Posts.png

Hope this may be useful to some, I know not everyone would be keen on opening up their S88, But i know some of you would, and knowing the cause of the click or rattle, and a simple fix.. Basic technical ability required. Just go slow, watch the video, the hardest part is probably, connecting the data strips on the circuit boards there are 4 of these..

Some Links to youtube vids, and the Grease I Used:

SUPER LUBE 85G 2105011 By LOCTITE : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive (Grease used)

https://youtu.be/LcOH6BN-FvE (How to open the S88 mk2)

https://youtu.be/ZWplHbi6t0U (Fatar tp100 Same keybed, Shows the greasing of the posts

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Comments

  • Nico_NI
    Nico_NI Administrator Posts: 1,124 admin
    edited August 2022

    Hey @rdalcroft, thank you for sharing this guide! This can definitely be useful to give the S88 a fresh feeling.

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/8162#Comment_8162

    Hi, thanks for that.

    hope it helps those, especially if they find it’s out of warranty. It took 2 hours tops. Pretty easy. And Keybed feels like new.

  • Caron Martin
    Caron Martin Member Posts: 12 Member

    Hi, my KK MK2 s88 keyboard is very noisy. The noise occurs on the release of the note when it hits back the frame. Does that noise on all the keys. Of course, if you play in a band or a GIG the may not be an issue but when it's used in a studio environnement it becomes very disturbing. It seems that the felt strip that is design to damp the noise when the key hits the frame isn't thick enough and therefore is inefficient. Has anyone noted the same issue and is there a fix for that?

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/9660#Comment_9660

    The only thing you can do is replace the foam strip. It’s a low density foam strip. 9mm thick. Problem is native instruments will not supply this, as the keybed is a Fatar tp100, you could try contact fatar. I ended up ordering Yamaha foam strips and hoped for the best. The strip was almost right but being 1mm too thick.

    but it turned out my strip was ok. It was just the grease I needed. You could try some keyboard repair places see if they have 9mm strips similar. It’s easy to replace. As they are sticky backed. Just removing the original so there is nothing left behind, taking your time.

    after the regressing my release noise quieted down. As I bought the strips because I thought it was getting worn because of the thud. But after inspecting my foam. It looked in good shape.

    woukdnt hurt to open it, do a visual to see.

  • Caron Martin
    Caron Martin Member Posts: 12 Member

    @rdalcroft

    Thanks for your answer.

    The noise seems to happen only when the key hits the frame on its way back. This is why I first thought the felt was too thin or worn but it also could be something else.

    I will follow your advice to look under the hood.

    🙏

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor

    Did you manage to have a look under the hood? The noise, was it a low thud, or a high pitch click?

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/9732#Comment_9732

    Did you manage to have a look under the hood? The noise, was it a low thud, or a high pitch click?

    "I really with they had a delete option sorry for the double comment, i forgot to Quote"

  • mitchiemasha
    mitchiemasha Member Posts: 3 Member

    Any more thoughts on grease types? I'm about to do this to my S88 Mk1. Thank you

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor

    I am going to try this next: Yamaha Digital Piano Grease CLP-CVP CA 50Gr AAX90710.

    Yamaha Digital Piano Grease CLP-CVP CA 50Gr AAX90710 - Pro Audio Service Ltd

    As the grease i tried before: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01186U64Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    lasted 8months before i noticed one or 2 keys become clicky again.

    I think less grease is better than packing the key, which i did the first time.

    Its a shame that the design of the white keys there is no track or enclosure to keep the grease from spreading out over time, atleast the black keys have a square enclosure where you can just fill it with the grease.

    Its all trial and error, I think losts of factors affect how long it will last, room temp, how hard you play, how often you play. Its a bad design of keybed.

    Even if they had a light rubberised coating on the inside of the keys, a few microns thick, so when they hit the plastic post the noise would be dampened, even if the grease started to wear out.

    Plastic against plastic = Noise

  • mitchiemasha
    mitchiemasha Member Posts: 3 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/30071#Comment_30071

    They do felt strips as well, so that's good.

    I'm currently playing about an hour each day for almost a year, some days longer) but synth action (Virus TI, Nektar P6). I play quite hard, overly hard, hoping the hammer action fixes this. It's like starting all over again and there's a huge difference in expression, the details, the errors stand out more. I'm not very good and have no idea how hammer action is supposed to feel, I've never played 1 before. My S88 MK1 is second hand but I don't mind reconditioning things or modifying for improvements, this is standard for me.

  • nwebb
    nwebb Member Posts: 15 Member

    Thanks so much for this, @rdalcroft. I have an S61, and a couple of the black keys are creaking when pressed down . I realise the S88 is weighted, so I'm wondering whether a similar process will work in my case. Perhaps @Nico_NI will be able to let me know?

    Link to video:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0qqcwx447k1utkj/S61%20Creaky%20keys.MOV?dl=0

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/90396#Comment_90396

    It wouldn’t hurt to open it up. See the mechanism inside.

    sounds like it’s rubbing on something.

    not sur if the keys are greased the same as the s88. But if you are confident in opening it up. There are videos on YouTube for opening up the s61.


    just take your time. Take it slow with ribbon cables. Remember which screws go where. And be careful of the light guide.


    I am sure you will be able to trouble shoot the issue. Could be a spring. Not sure what the mechanism is though.

  • roguespectrum
    roguespectrum Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    @rdalcroft I've just begun to encounter this issue after several years of ownership. Being a year later, how are things holding up with your solution?

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor

    Yes using the blue Yamaha grease, and following my instructions. I can probably get 2 years, before I feel I have to re do it all again.

    Its, not to bad, as the whole process takes about 3 hours, once you become confident at doing it.

    Your Keybed does feel like new, once its done.

    The only thing I would like from native instruments, is a way to buy the Foam strip, where the hammers rest/bounce on. As this is a 9mm high strip. and very hard to find. I am using a similar strip from Yamaha, but its 10mm high and denser than the native instruments. This is giving less travel in the key press, thus affecting velocity.

    Hopefully, once right to repair comes into effect, they will have to supply the foam strip for consumers to buy.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 4,929 mod

    Quote : "Its, not to bad, as the whole process takes about 3 hours, once you become confident at doing it."

    Thank you very much for sharing with the community and for caring enough to document so well.

    I am not sure though how comfortable I would be if I had to dis-assemble my own keyboard. Anyway , my own keyboard is a S61 MK2 so I don't even even know if it will be afflicted over time or not !

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