Why no random preset button in Komplete Kontrol?

anthony-1979 · 2022-03-09T10:44:20+00:00

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anthony-1979

Hi there,

I have over 58,000 instrument presets in my komplete kontrol and it always starts off with the same preset. Why can't I randomise these search results so that I can hear something other than --INIT-- and [PRIS]1? lmfao?

Like is this for real? Do I really always need to always have foresight of what tag/instrument i wish to select to change up my results and even THEN the first preset in the list of returned results is always the same one? When my piano results return 5000 presets, it's not nice to always be presented with the exact same piano right on the top of the list as I last got when I used the exact same tags.

I find myself constantly being forced to use the same sounds when quickly trying to lay down ideas. After having 58,000 to choose from, yes the same sounds are being used because even though I have the ability to sit there scrolling down for minutes on end to hear some new stuff I really shouldn't have to or want to.

Does anybody have any thoughts? It really cannot be that 58,000 sounds can only be layed out alphabetically. I thought KK was supposed to "open" the pallet not keep it closed off to the same sounds. I know I'm supposed to pick "characters" and "instruments" but in music 101, having foresight really only happens on lucky days if anybody here knows what I'm talking about.

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Kubrak

I has been discussed here quite recently. Something like go to random sample would be nice. Randomization would make things simpler and flow smoother....

Now, one may scroll somewhere and try few patches and scroll again. Some people jump by pages, several times...

anthony-1979

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/8737#Comment_8737

It would be all you said and it would literally be "life" itself if it had random preset button. Scrap that, just an option to turn the "results" into random order so that way you can still use tags to narrow down to piano but you get a different list each time! Think of how Omnisphere does it. Imagine all the new sounds that would just be suddenly accessible. And it would make music making fun again to not have to hear the same "thrill" cinematic stomps right at the beginning of the list every single time.

Oh trust me I scroll, but believe it or not even the scrolls become the same length after a while and land me in the exact same area I always land on! It's all flawed unless there is true randomisation. Way too many presets to be accessing them alphabetically. You can scroll for days and never hear >80% of the sounds available.

Kubrak

Jump to random position is easier to implement (several hours of work, say one day including changes in user manual and so on.). And randomized order of presets would not fit all people.

It would work on filtered presets, so no problem to narrow down to preset subset.

anthony-1979

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/8777#Comment_8777

Wow. You think you can make this happen? ;)

Kubrak

I could, if I worked in NI, but I do not. But I am a programmer and so I can guess, more or less, how much work such a thing represents.

I would appreciate something like random position changes, I also have thousands of patches. Just Massive X has 2000+ presets (including Preset Expansions).

JesterMgee

I have over 600,000 presets so I feel your pain.

Random for me is to set the scroll bar in KK to a random point then use PG UP/DN and arrows to make it land in a random spot BUT after 7 years of asking for this seemingly simple function (along with a raft of other no-brainer simple things) i've accepted NI aren't interested at all in what users want, only in whatever their own vision is because not a single suggestion in all this time from users has been implemented. It's a good suggestion made hundreds of times already, but I wouldn't hold your breath on it ever being reality.

anthony-1979

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/8835#Comment_8835

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/8795#Comment_8795

I guess all we can do is keep this post alive and hope that others join and it becomes a bit of a "thing". I honestly feel this is something that every single user struggles with and if enough people chime in here with their opinions in this "new" forum you never know, we may get some traction, NI sees it and decides to implement it. I'm not holding my breath as you say but I can only dream I guess. And while they're at it they can also let the user re-tag the official content. Not asking for custom "tags" as that would get messy but at least let me use the existing tags to "Correct" the many badly tagged plugins with incorrect tags.

Excuse my ignorance but how do you do "page up/down"? Is that simply holding shift on the keyboard while scrolling and it leaps further down the list? If so, it still moves down slow as hell and I'll NEVER get to hear the presets even a quarter of the way down the list of 58,000 presets. I can only imagine how much of a nightmare this is for you with 600,000!!

Let's just keep making some noise guys. Once this is implemented it will be what it was always meant to be and also it will be like the seas have parted!

anthony-1979

Screen Shot 2022-03-10 at 11.27.52 am.png

Screen Shot 2022-03-10 at 11.27.44 am.png

They're already onto the "random" era in some of their plugs but honestly it's far less useful as a synth parameter randomiser than it is as a random preset selector. How can they not see this? I really hope someone over there is watching this space.

JesterMgee

Yeah "flogging a dead horse" is the term that comes to mind.

You kind of give up hope after almost a decade of zero change. I've just learned to live with it since i'm actually not a preset junkie, I use the few instruments I know and like and that's kind of it for me. I only have that many presets because I make NKS compatibility libraries but many instruments I have barely used myself.

Yes all I do is use page up/down keys and then arrow keys (on the computer keyboard) as I find the browsing on the keyboard itself to be limited. This is probably why they haven't added a "random" function as yet because they would have to somehow make it accessible from the KB. Seems simple to make something like Shift and Down/Up. I half blame Apple tho as they have caused almost all development of the last 2 years to be focused around fu$&!n logic and macOS compatibility, has been a big reason not much else has been done.

anthony-1979

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/8874#Comment_8874

Wow I had no idea things were as back-seated as you say. I'm not a preset junkie either but I'd love to hear these 58,000 sounds I have that seem nice and "tucked away" for the moment lol.

Is there a specific feature request forum or something? Or is this it?

JesterMgee

Well on the old forum there was a feature suggestion thread with 48 pages of suggestions since 2014.... So far I think maybe zero of those have been implemented in all that time, hence the amount of optimism I have for any improvements moving forward.

Only features in all that time (that is 8 years) that does NOT include compatibility and basic functionality enhancements (such as releasing the MK2 keyboard without ability to integrate into most DAWs like MK1):

Sound Previews (which no one actually requested but was a good feature)
Sampler (which again, no one asked for and is rather limited with ability to load just a single sample
VST FX (which again was never requested and is pretty crippled as you cannot save an instrument + effects chain or even automate loaded effects)

That is about it.

Actually, there has been MORE features lost than gained since the initial release of the MK1 keyboard:

You cannot switch off the lightguide at all on the MK2 (could MK1)
MK1 had the ability to set the touch strips to all kinds of useful LFO operations such as ping-pong, no gravity etc

You can see the whole release cycle history here:

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/official-update-status-komplete-kontrol-current-2-6-6.255928/

Almost every release is just adding support for the latest keyboards, adding support (or more fixing) for DAWs or patching issues caused by macOS.

This is ultimately why there is probably no feature request thread here because it's always just been an ignored black hole for users to dispose of useful suggestions and yes, my tone is a reflection of my disappointment over the last 8 years on this topic!

anthony-1979

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/8999#Comment_8999

I totally get your disappointment. It's not right that NI don't implement user suggestions/requests. They have amazing, innovative ideas that if only were combined with user ideas it would actually be next level.

I personally feel that you should start an attention-grabbing thread about your disappointment. Expressing with specific points like you've made here. That will be probably be seen more than this thread here about a very typical topic like "random presets". I feel NI should be very aware of the points you've made and if you get some traction there from other users, it might be seen by NI.

That all being said, I don't blame you if you feel unenthused about doing such a thing as you seem like you've been around here long enough to know their tendencies. I guess it can't hurt to write a public letter to NI so that others can jump on the bandwagon.

JesterMgee

Ha, I like how you assume I have not already done that a number of times not just on the old forum in numerous threads, in the beta testing area, direct to NI employees via email and also via skype video call.... Short of flying over there, grabbing the code and programming in some features myself, I have exhausted my approaches as far as I CBF!

I'm over it TBH, I just use what I can from what I have and just don't purchase any content anymore, haven't for years and unlikely I will because it's not that the features I want aren't being considered, it is that nothing any user has said has suggested has ever been hinted at being considered.

Kubrak

I guess, NI did impement some of users demanded. For example clips, and possibly few more things....

On the other side, I do not understant why some really simple to implement and usefull things like preset random jump has not been added. It is one manday at most.... 500-700 EUR, or so.

JesterMgee

I guess, NI did impement some of users demanded. For example clips, and possibly few more things....

By clips do you mean the sample player? I mentioned that as one of the only features I could find.

The update release cycle is here:

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/official-update-status-komplete-kontrol-current-2-6-6.255928/

I went through it to see if there may have been any features released that I may have missed as important.... I struggle to find even a single one in all that time but am happy to be proven wrong. I don't count functionality that was "added back in" after it was lost from MK1 to MK2 release or compatibility fixes, I mean new and useful features that make using it more user friendly. Only other feature that was a good one was 3rd party MIDI control of KK.

To rehash some of the most requested and basic features that have been asked for almost since day 1:

Resizable window (just to see more real-estate in the browser)
Random preset selector (just a function to jump to a random position in the selected filter, not even load it just jump to it)
Preset filtering options such as "Not" to exclude a certain type of tag
Export/import favourites so you can easily make a backup. Yes you can manually backup the fav database file but why not just an export option to make a backup.
Ability to re-order controls and pages easily by DnD when making a template
Ability to switch the LightGuide OFF on the MK2 (it was a feature on the MK1 that disappeared on the MK2)
Ability to at least save an instrument + effects chain as a new preset type
Preview volume control slider accessible from the USER LIBRARY tab (why this is still not a thing boggles my mind!!!)

That is just off the top of my head the MOST basic things that honestly, I could probably code and release in 2 days even with my crude skills, so there isn't any excuse of "time" being the problem, if it takes 8 years to even get to just one of these then development progress is slower than I ever believed it was (and already considered NIs dev speed to be slow)

Here are some more popular requests that are a little more difficult to implement but still highly requested:

Ability to "host automate" effects (you cannot control loaded effects from the DAW so there needs to be some way to overcome this issue)
Multi-layer instruments, load multiple instruments into KK and be able to switch between them or create a layered keyboard template (and save this as an ensemble)
Support for more than just 1 KK keyboard (many have multiple keyboards that wish to either use different channels or control different instances of KK at the same time. Even just the ability to use 2 keyboards showing the same thing would be welcome but even this is impossible.
Ability to easily generate a preview sound for a user preset. We can save these simple enough, but cannot generate a sound preview in KK for them.
Better compatibility with higher resolution displays (this one I am certain is coming)

I would go on but almost all of these have been constant requests.

When you look at something with potential like Komplete Kontrol where so much user input has been fed back and to have almost none of it (even as you say, some of the very basic things) considered in almost a decade of development (after what is it, 4 different models of keyboard!) it makes you wonder what the point of even asking users what they want to see, why even have a "Wishlist" to start with (and probably why there isn't one on the new forum). I dread to think how long it will actually take (if ever) to see VST3 support for any non-NI plugins.

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