Navigation and selection in mk3 hardware

So I just upgraded to the Kontrol s88 mk3 hardware. I really like it, but navigation seems to be a backwards step? So the only way the manual talks about being able to select (and arm) a track to play etc. is by the encoder, and only the encoder. I can bank in sections of 8 through tracks, but I cannot select any of the the 8 tracks, I must use the encoder to track by track go through all the tracks in a project to get to the track I want the s88 to control parameters on (besides the track faders of course), this seems like a huge missing feature. In the s88 mk2 I could select a track with the buttons above the display, but those are now for track mute and solo only? once you get above 24 tracks you're talking a serious amount of time hitting the main encoder left or right to get to the track you want to control. Am I missing something or is the ability to select a track you bank to planned in the future?

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JesterMgee

Probably not missing anything, almost everything in regards to how simple and efficient KKV2 and the MK2 was has gone out the window. Navigation in the new software is all confusing and terrible and one of the biggest complaints from people since release. The more invested you were with KK in V2, the more frustrated you will find the experience in V3.

I'd love to offer you hope, but I have none left…

Machinesworking

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/243357#Comment_243357

Yeah I have a habit of immediately finding the flaw, but this is one of two issues I have with it, and both can be solved in software updates. They could offer a way to select/arm a track by the buttons for sure. I really have been pretty confused by UX on hardware these days? I mean WTF is wrong with companies that they have an existing method of banking and selecting tracks, but they just randomly decided while adding all kinds of great new features to get rid of the mute/solo buttons and screw up navigating tracks and selecting a track to be edited? I'm trying to figure out how this stuff passes QA? No one went "hey navigation in projects larger than 16 tracks is much worse now that we don't offer any way to select the tracks you bank to, we should fix this before release."???

The controller issue with developers continues, too many of them end up being slower than the screen and a mouse, this is IMO the #1 thing you should be thinking about when you bring one to market.

timrae_NI

In the s88 mk2 I could select a track with the buttons above the display, but those are now for track mute and solo only? once you get above 24 tracks you're talking a serious amount of time hitting the main encoder left or right to get to the track you want to control. Am I missing something or is the ability to select a track you bank to planned in the future?

Yeah unfortunately those buttons are taken by mute and solo now. If you need to jump quickly from one track to another that's far away, currently the fastest way is to use the mouse. If you have a suggestion for a recommended UX on how to improve this on the Mk3 then please feel free to share.

Machinesworking

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/243417#Comment_243417

Lol very hard not to be a smart ass and say maybe try not removing a feature from the hardware to begin with? Why did getting rid of it in the first place make sense to the engineers and/or bean counters? This is software driven now, so currently it's designated that Mute is the most important thing you can do while banking. I would personally use the Shift key on one of these functions, (depending obviously on whether or not your development team has earmarked one already for a shift feature), Play Assist, or one of the three selection buttons, Browser/Plugin/DAW. The control itself should not be a momentary switch but toggle between current track selection and mute/solo. There are issues with this, but shift held down should react differently than hitting it once to go from mute to solo..

I can't not be confused as to how this was given the green light in the first place though? Navigation in a DAW via Mackie Control has been around for 20+ years, this isn't the new feature to only the mk3, but nixing dedicated mute and solo buttons and replacing a navigation feature without a solution is one of those moves where you start to wonder if there are any musicians at NI? Mixing features are great, but the main reason for the Kontrol s series is composing, i.e. navigating a set, the first thing you're going to want to do is compose that orchestra peice, and if you have 40+ tracks the mk3 is set up much worse than the mk2.

Again the main thing with any control surface type feature to ask is will it be faster than using a mouse? if even after you build up muscle memory it's slower, then the adoption of the product will screech to a halt in time.

The sad part is besides this one major flaw, the rest of the design of the mk3 is fantastic. The ability to use DAW plugins, VST/AUs and of course the Komplete Kontrol software is great, the aftertouch is better than the mk2. I do wish it had an onboard ability to assign the order of plugin parameters but I realize that would maybe require it to be prohibitively expensive, probably best left up to the DAW. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Machinesworking

Another way to implement this would be how Möss (a Bitwig and Reaper script developer) suggests, holding the record button down instead of toggling changes the default mute state of the switches to track selection and arming. This by far would be the most intuitive way. As of now Moss cannot access this to implement it himself, but NI could do it hopefully.

b-righteous

I also think its a shame NI decided to remove important buttons from the MK3. Really can't understand what they were thinking?

Nothing they can do now to bring the buttons back, but they really should be trying to fix this as best possible. I like the idea of using a shortcut to toggle the behavior between mute and track select. I think Shift + Previous or Shift + Stop could be used to toggle this with a brief message on screen of the Mute/Select mode. Not sure I like using the record button for this though.

A little off topic but just found out that the MK3 is not compatible with MPC 3 software because they also removed the "Instance" button. This effectively kills the ability to use Komplete Kontrol with the MPC. Without the track focus follow support, you can't use KKMK3 in a DAW that does not support track focus follow since there is no other way to switch between instances. I am hoping that NI can work with Akai to support the track focus feature in MPC 3. Regardless, we need another shortcut to access the plugin instances on the MK3. Shift + DAW seems logical.

I am considering returning the MK3 due to this and other issues. Hoping NI can step in and make things right after the huge mistake made removing those crucial buttons.

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