NKS Development Discussion
Comments
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Everything known (and available to public) is here, in the PDF's:
Few more info might still be here on this discussion, in some older comments.
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I save all of mine manually, but you can use a screen recorder to do the process - pulling preset names to save into KK's export from either VST preset names, a database etc.
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Thanks guys!
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I'm on Mac and use the built in Automator app to save some, but it only works well with plugins like Phaseplant and Myth that are easy to copy/paste the preset name from. I guess there is stuff like that on Windows too. There are some macro tools that can do things like OCR to capture preset names but a lot of hassle to setup. Otherwise I do it manually if there are not a lot of presets, if there are too many or they are not good quality I don't bother and just use the template for control, or in many cases I have just saved my own presets as NKS and ignored the factory patches completely (eg for my Noise engineering NKS) - or just save the ones you actually like - some plugins come with a lot of filler.
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Thanks , do you guys know if NI ever plan's on offering us some better tools for better managing this in the future ? Even Akai in their VIP Software, many moons ago allowed for the option to " get preset names " and it was a breeze to just press the inc + and step and auto save patches.
There's so many obvious ways, they could improve our workflow for saving sounds, and working with NKS workflow features.
Komplete Kontrol has some age on it now, and when I ponder back to Kore for example, it's mind boggling how much further along they we're in many ways, like support for ( Fx Chains,Multi-timbral instruments, Routing,Advanced Midi support).
I really do scratch my head sometimes, wondering what has happened to the NI I grew up loving..
I'm in the middle of trying to save my Montage M favorite patches, there's so many of them,and I hit a brick wall, when trying to edit my template, the Montage Super Knob uses Midi CC's ( cc 95 + cc 92 ) and with Komplete Kontrol, it seems it only supports host automation, and they left out the ability for us to map midi cc's. Is there any work around for this ?
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This is what i do for preset names, you might find it useful and fast. But, its for Windows only.
Copy Name List to Clipboard
It is a simple Registry command, for folders. You go to any preset folder, right-click on it and choose the command. It copies everything in less than a second and then i paste on a text editor (such as Notepad).
Now i have all the names, in alphabetical order.
Then i do a simple "Replace" to remove the extension.
In this case .syx to replaced by nothing
Now my preset list is ready! 😉
Here is the registry command:
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How do you use the preset list to generate NKS though? On Mac I don't think Automator is able to copy consecutive names from a list and paste them into new files.
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Yes NI Kore could completely import preset banks and convert them to .ksd - but only for plugins using fxb/fxp which is the standard VST2 preset format. Same with VIP and its predecessor Zen. But back then fxb was more commonly used for preset banks. However since the move to VST3, although some plugins do use VST3's standard preset format (.vstpreset), there is no standard bank format, and most devs moved away from standard formats anyway to create numerous proprietary ones so what Kore (and VIP) could do would no longer be possible. You would need a different import method for almost every different company - far harder in practice than even translating between the various sample formats.
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Well, that's when the hard work begins. Copy-paste, copy-paste, copy-paste…. and so on.
But at least i have all the names there, ready… no need to write them by hand or do some other, time consuming "techniques" (save as —> copy name —> cancel or, rename —> copy name —> cancel etc etc).
Of course on some plugins things are more easy, you just double-click on the name and its ready to copy, but still, my method is faster.
About automation and macros… i am totally useless with them, i never even understood what i'm supposed to do 😋 on the other hand, with scripts and codes i am far more comfortable
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although some plugins do use VST3's standard preset format (.vstpreset), there is no standard bank format, and most devs moved away from standard formats…
In many cases, they are .xml files, "masked" under a new extension.
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Thanks Sunborn and Kymeia , I’m hoping NI adds some new workflow features that will assist us in this soon.
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They won't.
This is why some of us have kind of made a side living doing this kind of work, it's tedious and laborious and there is no actual simple (common) way to do it as plugins use a hugely differing preset format which simply cannot be read by a general tool. There are ways, but it takes some ingenuity and experience to know what is possible.
I was also on the Beta team for VIP many moons ago when v1.0 was released and even the way it did presets was extremely limited as it could only read the presets if the plugin actually notified the host of them usually when they were standard fxp/fxb presets, which many did not so it required still stepping through presets 1 at a time to save them out and in some cases that did not even work at all. I immediately saw the problems with VIP and bailed on the product after just 3 weeks because I could see it was never going to work how I hoped and once they abandoned the maintenance of the libraries it was doomed from there.
Anything in the world can be automated but sometimes it may take weeks to even try figure out just how and ultimately in that time for a plugin of a few hundred, by hand is still easiest way for a typical user if they don't plan to manage updates in future. Having a background in programming and automation processes and a few decades of experience will certainly help, otherwise I can imagine it's a pretty overwhelming and difficult thing to try figure out. Not something that can easily be taught.
Even plugin devs have to develop their own tools (having spoken to countless devs over the years) to make NKS, there are no tools from NI for devs either, just guidelines so don't expect anything for users on this front. Even the old Preset Magician program was drastically complicated under the hood due to the need to develop ways to read the plethora of different preset and database formats. Then something like UVI is impossible because everything is stored as binary and you simply cannot read it outside Workstation or Falcon.
NKS has been a thing now for over 10 years. You can pretty much assume if you have a question or a hope or a dream, it has been asked/discussed already so prepare to wait an indefinite amount of time if you want change on that front
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'I was also on the Beta team for VIP many moons ago'
I was also on the beta for it’s predecessor Zen0 -
Two thoughts on this (i expressed them in the past too, most probably in this thread, many pages before):
U-he: Has an excellent option "save preset as NKS". This is code. So it can be done by other devs too. Or can be studied and used as a base for an independent tool.
Preset Magician: For me, this was the best effort, ever. It is open source so, it can be re-developed again, this time with VST3 support, by a collaboration of developers, coders, designers, artists and power users. With or without Felicia, but with her approval nonetheless. I am very willing to participate in such team, but somehow, the idea has to be spread. I am 100% positive that it can be done. We can even create a special thread here, and seek attention.
If such ideas managed to be established practically (ie, as a software) and become accepted by the majority of users (and, even better, by few devs too) NI will be forced to follow.
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U-he: Has an excellent option "save preset as NKS". This is code. So it can be done by other devs too. Or can be studied and used as a base for an independent tool.
Easy to do with one's own format, you just take the plugin data and wrap it in an NKS format. This can be done within a plugin since you have the plugin loaded so of course a dev of their own plugins can build it into their plugin and read their own format, won't work for another plugin tho because of what I stated already and if it was that simple, why aren't all NKS partners making the same tool for all their plugins?
Preset Magician: For me, this was the best effort, ever. It is open source so, it can be re-developed again, this time with VST3 support, by a collaboration of developers, coders, designers, artists and power users. With or without Felicia, but with her approval nonetheless. I am very willing to participate in such team, but somehow, the idea has to be spread. I am 100% positive that it can be done. We can even create a special thread here, and seek attention.
Was abandoned because of the same reasons as already stated, too complicated/impossible to read every different format and the need to create format conversions for every plugin with some (as mentioned) like UVI which cannot be read by anything other than the actual plugin itself. It too worked only with FXB/FXP based presets, XML presets and ones that were able to be read from a file and had a conversion plugin created for them. VST3 adds additional complications into the mix since some presets for certain instruments require a special checksum to be generated for the VST3 end data where it stores the position of sample data within the preset file, without it being 100% correct, it loads up a default preset and for that to be generated you have to know the format and how it works. The plugin usually does that on a plugin state request which has to be done preset by preset.
If you are positive it can be done, nothing is stopping you from investing your time to figure it out. I'm not about to go down that rabbit hole knowing already what lies ahead but it's all out there, if you can use a hex editor to decipher what is happening, go nuts. Most out there tho are more interested to just make music.
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