Programming synths from M+
Comments
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I share your opinion regarding the struggle of being able to comfortably program an in-built synth on M+. This is exactly what led me to pushing more in the direction of Reaktor usage on standalone.
Although not officially supported (another odd decision regarding this device if you ask me), it was the only way I could see that I would be able satisfy my personal itch for in depth sound design and patch creation. I have no interest in using everyone else's presets and sounds, that's just not where I find myself as a user.
Is it ideal that we have to resort to measures such as this (for what I would call fairly basic functionality of their own in-built devices) ? Not really... But this is it, and that quirk does not appear to ever be on the radar for future development.
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This is what I do. I make a patch on the desktop, think really hard about what would be fun to tweak during a performance (whether in studio, or on stage), then make as many macros as I see fit. If I'm starting a track in standalone mode, I don't want to do all my sound designing from scratch. I just want surf the browser and see what inspires me. However, this really only applies to NI's more complicated synth engines; They could stand to add more built-in synthesizers, even if they have to be somewhat simplified to fit Maschine's interface.
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glad I’m not alone in this. Very bizarre that NI is seemingly ignoring what I would assume is very obvious and needed basic functionality.
how are you using reaktor in stand alone? I thought it was the same thing just preset based?2 -
A few of us have been in this place since product launch... I know I definitely got sold by the marketing campaign. "Massive and FM8 built in to a hardware device ?! Plus Kontakt?! PLUS REAKTOR?!!"
So this workflow is still preset based in a way, as I load from an init patch that I create as the starting point. However, the programming experience can be vastly different here as you define the order and level of control exposure for your specific needs.
It sounds ridiculous to say, but I gave up on the in-built synths in favour of user made ensembles that have controls that translate better to groups of 8 parameters. For instance, for the lack of FM in my life I ported a version of Ableton Operator that allows controls over envelope shaping. Is it as deep as FM8? No. But it does allow me to create from scratch.
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yea I’m feeling like I’m in the same boat now, what a ridiculous missed opportunity from Native instruments. It seems pretty clear that they’re more interested in selling presets than in providing quality instruments these days. The M+ is still a great drum machine and sampler without all this but it very much feels half completed.
where is a good place to get the reaktor enables that your using? I know very little about reaktor I haven’t used it in probably 10 years lol.
If your using stuff like a user made version of Operator would I be correct in thinking I could search around for other user made instruments and that they’ll work in stand alone or no? because that would be a big plus if I found a couple of half way decent synths with full access to its parameters0 -
There was an update not too long ago which added midi control of osc wavetable selection, filter types, and a few more crucial params. So you can map those now.
Also, AFAIK there is no artificial limit to the number of control pages, you can have more than 16. It is cumbersome to navigate between them with the arrow button or Shift + Variation. I guess that’s where the NKS2 parameter groupings come in handy, but those will prob require a hardware refresh.
In any case, for those interested I would suggest again to try out the “NKS Init” preset for Massive. NI did a good job on that one.1 -
There is a guy within this community who has buit a Reaktor synth from scratch specifically to be programmed from the Maschine+. It won't have the depth of Massive, of course, but its another option.
Will try to remember their ccount name, and link later.
But I also thin it's worth pushing back against your point that M+ is jut a preset machine, nd that even if it were that would rule it out of professional usage. This seems to be both a narrow perspective an also just pain incorrect.
With regard to integrating the iPad into your workflow, you could always consider auto-sampling the iPad sounds into M+ You could just sequence parts on the tablet and sample them as loops.
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Are you referring to this?
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Hello and welcome to Maschine+!
First off, the latest version of Massive desktop adds NKS2 compatibility, which allows mapping more controls and even comes with wavetable selectors mapped by default. Unfortunately, the Massive version inside M+ standalone is one version behind the desktop, so we are still waiting for it..
As for the "M+ is just for NI content", I think the idea in Maschine+ is that you can customize the USER side of it heavily, as long as you dont mind opening up your computer for preparing the stuff you want to use. You are intended to use Massive & FM8 on the desktop, create your patches, assign them with macros that make sense for the patch, export to your SD card, boom. The same applies for Kontakt & Reaktor content - roll your own on the computer, export to SD, Bobs your uncle. I know you are thinking you want to be creating everything from scratch directly in standalone, but this is not how NI envisioned things to work with the M+ (for better or worse..)
The sooner you accept this reality of M+, you will sleep better at nights. If this all sounds unacceptable for you, I recommend going with the Push 3 standalone.
This forum has a thread with a bunch of M+ optimized Reaktor content. Alternatively, you can look for things in the RUL which is said to be "NKS compatible" or "works with Maschine+". But ultimately, rolling your own stuff with Reaktor, and mapping it out just how youd like, is the best solution IMHO.
As an old elektron fan I recommend checking out M+TONIC on the thread. Its still in beta (reminds me I should finish it), but its a Reaktor "clone" of microtonic, and you can have tons of fun Machinedrum-style by initializing a couple instances and going hard parameter locking via the M+ step sequencer ;)
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@tetsuneko Good to see a familiar face of a Reaktor enthusiast still frequenting these forums!
Thank you for mentioning the difference in Massive versions… I attempted to try out the NKS Massive preset on M+ and it gave me an error being unable to open Massive. Shame, because it did appear to be a pretty comprehensive layout for an init patch.
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The next Maschine+ OS update should bring us the latest massive desktop. Alas, since it will be 3.0, might still be some time until we get it..
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Evro, it's Multiparameters morphing but maybe I should preparing Tracks and finishing everything I have to. Track Golden Dus i gave as Example is made with one Prism. And RAUM with one special internal FX. But I can't follow everything so maybe I don't understand still I would like to get Massive exclusive M 3.0 New Int so I can change Wave Table algorithm and shapes with encoders. I support good ideas.
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tetsuneko said: "might still be some time until we get it"
No no! Native Instruments clearly stated in the Maschine 3 release notes that the update is "coming soon".
😁
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I understand your pushback but also want to counter by elaborating a little, it’s very much my nature and way of thinking about music production and I also apply it to myself I personally feel that simply dialing up some presets and banging out a beat even if it’s arranged well is not actually creating I also can’t fathom why anyone with a synthesizer (or sampler or any creative tool) would even want to use sounds they didn’t create themselves that’s one of the most exciting and interesting parts of the entire thing and crucially how we define and differentiate ourselves musically. I personally see it as incredibly unprofessional and boring and a major cop out for one who considers themselves a musician, it’s closer to DJing and remixing than it is to music production to me.
At the same time though I wouldn’t ever go around putting people down for it, it’s my opinion and how I feel and how I judge myself musically and other musicians I listen to but I also acknowledge that some people just do it for fun and not everyone is trying to break molds or define themselves or make something different. Also for years sound design was my full time job and I full understand that if t all good it’s jjustno one was buying presets I wouldn’t have been able to do it for a living.
but it’s all good it’s just the lens I see it through.
im definitely interested in reaktor instruments that are already ready to go in M+…I watched the Blezzbeats video and followed along with getting the Juno60 into the M+ but I ****** up somewhere because even after following along step for step and also creating my own layout fit the template it either just wasn’t showing up in stand alone or it would show up but not make sound and not have of the parameters show up even though I am able to open it on Maschine software and it works fine…I got frustrated and gave up for now. I just have zero familiarity with Reaktor so that made things much more complicated. I haven’t given up completely as I’ve found quite a few Reaktor ensembles that look interesting and like they’d get me to the point I want to be which is essentially in the territory of the Push 3 stand alone in terms of the array of instruments I’d have in M+ in stand alone. If I could get there I’d be very happy with the M+ right now I see it as an amazing drum machine/sampler but and absolute waste as a sort of “Daw in a box” and that’s mostly due to the lack of usable instruments-1 -
thanks! I think that’s a good way to look at it, I mean when I bought the M+ essentially what I was looking for was an excellent drum machine/sampler that was standalone and that is exactly what I’ve found in the M+. What got me going though was thinking about how it CAN run massive etc so then I went down the “I want to be able to write an entire track from scratch in M+” which means I’d need full control over a few synths at least…I’m starting to allow myself to let go of that idea, It’s not what I NEED it’s just a thing I’d really want and enjoy.
Continuing that idea, I brought my M+ into my studio for the first time today and was very happy with how I was able to integrate it into myself up, I was jamming with the modular, hydrosynth and minilouge XD with the M+ handling all things drums and it was great, much quicker and more fun than anything else I’ve used tbh (and I’ve used damn near everything) so in that respect I’m quite happy with it.
the way I see it now is that IF I can get a few interesting Reaktor instruments into it than that would be a huge plus when I’m coming up with ideas away from the studio…if I can’t then it’s a very solid and fun drum machine.
Btw thanks for the heads up about M+Tonic I’m excited to check that one out. I’m a sucker for drum synthesis, out of all the Elektron boxes I’ve bought and sold the MachinedrumUW is the one I regret/miss the most!1
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