Maschine + and Jam running independently?
Is there a way to run the Maschine plus standalone and Maschine Jam independently? I am doing a live set with one other person and I am wondering if they can be changing scenes and patterns while I am modulating sounds and finger drumming on the plus. But changing a pattern on the Jam overrides what is going on, on the plus so i'm wondering if they can run separately.
Best Answer
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It's the focus system, if its a flaw or not depends on what you want to do and how you like to work.
Decoupling controllers / independent control (to some degree) has been one of the most requested things, since… forever. Theres tons of threads about this.
Given that JAM is EOL, this will never happen.. Maybe if theres ever a JAM Mk2 and NI decides to listen but the same also happens with the 4x4 devices + KK-S keyboards, so low chances.
A user went as far as editing Maschine's controller code to "fix" this issue, which I added to NIPatcher. Unfortunately modifications on the M+ standalone are not possible since we have no access to it's file-system:
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Answers
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Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the only thing that "runs" is the Maschine Plus. The Jam doesn't "run" anything. It's just an external controller for the Plus.
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Yeah I get that, but the issue I am trying to overcome is lets say on machine plus i'm on the macros page for group A adjusting values on the + but my band mate activates a loop in group B on the jam. By default it will take me out of group A on the + and then i have to go back. I just want the trigger loops and scenes from the jam while not having it constantly change what page is active on the +.
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Ahh yeah so you’ve discovered one of Maschine’s major design flaws. The Jam will mirror whatever the Maschine controller is currently focused on. So if you are in keyboard mode on the Maschine+, the jam will also be in keyboard mode which defeats the whole purpose of having a second controller like the jam in my opinion. The jam is more like an extension or alternative way to use Maschine’s features rather than a companion controller that operates independently of the Maschine’s current focus. There may be some nuances to getting separate views that I’m not aware of. The multiple touch sensors is nice on the jam and the ability to quickly select patterns or scenes is nice but I think the vision is different than what most users had in mind.
Theres also another fun issue I discovered when I try to record a pattern by playing in the Maschine controller while also having an external midi controller linked to another sound in a different group. Once you start recording the focus shifts from the group the Maschine controller is playing on to the group that the external midi controller is playing. So essentially, if you have anything triggering the stuff in the software, it will be recorded when in record mode regardless of focus.
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It's the focus system, if its a flaw or not depends on what you want to do and how you like to work.
Decoupling controllers / independent control (to some degree) has been one of the most requested things, since… forever. Theres tons of threads about this.
Given that JAM is EOL, this will never happen.. Maybe if theres ever a JAM Mk2 and NI decides to listen but the same also happens with the 4x4 devices + KK-S keyboards, so low chances.
A user went as far as editing Maschine's controller code to "fix" this issue, which I added to NIPatcher. Unfortunately modifications on the M+ standalone are not possible since we have no access to it's file-system:
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What a tragedy, thanks for the info.
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I wonder how gaming console programmers go about coding the ability of said consoles to track independent controller inputs? My first NES back in the 80's had this capability.
To some degree, it seems that the M+ in standalone functions as a 'gaming console' of sorts. The game being, music production. I can't imagine it being an impossibility to have 2 or more controllers working within the Maschine SW environment independently… within the confines of the same project of course and especially within the same hardware/software universe.
Moving forward with M+ in standalone, this is almost a necessity if serious considerations are to be placed on using M+ as a sort of 'hub' for LIVE performance/production.
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I would imagine the majority of the functionality written in Maschine is done so with the assumption that the Maschine controller is the primary device for interacting with the software (Maschine has always been a software/hardware combo). Because of this assumption a lot of the code and structure of it is tightly coupled and revolves around the Maschine controller rather than some generic input from X number of devices.
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For certain. And since the release of M+, the assumption may need to shift slightly to incorporate multi users and interfaces.
I'm not saying that the floodgates should be opened to every hardware manufacturers' devices working without a hitch inside Maschine 3 SW or with M+ in standalone. I am suggesting that NI hardware work with NI software and, in this thread's specific case where M+ is concerned, M+ in standalone could have the potential to be an amazing centerpiece in any instrumental ensemble (aka band) if certain criteria are met.
Paramount to this realization, should NI decide to go this route, would be the inclusion of this thread's main point, multi user/controller functionality within the same project, at least within the hardware family NI provides initially.
Maybe extending that onramp to other manufacturers at some future point.
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Han? It's not about the difficulty of tracking what device sends what, that is very, very easy.
It's about how the core system is built around the expected workflow, for many situations the controllers auto focusing on the same thing is desirable… I wouldn't want to have to manually switch to a Group/Pad in each controller every time, it would take lots of steps and in that case you would have people complaining about the oposite… but in other situations the decoupling can indeed be awesome.
We don't need Maschine to always decouple controllers, we need an option to do so, when we need only.
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I concur. My reply did not include a toggle function for the feature.
In theory, I could see a Maschine SW iteration that 'sees' one hardware peripheral as 'the general' and subsequent hardware pieces could be under the command structure of 'the general' up until they have independent 'missions' to perform, whereby, they could decouple from 'the general's' command structure for the time needed to perform those independent missions.
This really only seems to present itself an issue when other hardware elements want control of Maschine's focus. Now with M+, it might be necessary to revisit what the 'intended' use case is for, not only the hardware, but the software as well. Or at least clarify the limitations. I know I was kinda bummed when I first realized I couldn't use Maschine with a buddy and a separate controller the way we intended.
As it stands, I see plenty of instances in a LIVE capacity where Maschine+ can provide a pretty solid backbone for a minimalist setup. I'd love to challenge the M+ and Maschine 3 SW moving forward by possibly featuring them at the core of a larger LIVE project with singer, guitarist, bassist, drummer and possibly a keyboardist in tow. More to come as the upcoming year unfolds on this front…
Sorry to digress, but yes, a toggle function for the feature for sure!
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