Bounce not working as intended.

Lionzinio · 2024-11-07T14:24:07+00:00

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My impression was that bounce would recreate the pattern being played on a pad and convert it to audio. The result should be that the output of the bounce should sound identical to that of the original pad pattern.

This doesn't always happen.

Take the new Breeze Kit and try bouncing pad 14 Guitar[140 A# Breeze

The output is not the same as the original at all. It is sped up, raised in pitch and doesn't seem to end at the correct place.

This is not the bounce I am looking for.

Track 15, the bounce, is out of sync with the original track (which is duplicated here as track 14)

The original track is a sliced version of a sample played over several notes

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Lionzinio

So I have found an interesting bug here. Bouncing is tied to the project tempo not the individual pattern tempo.

The pattern I was bouncing was originally at 140bpm. The scene that it is in is 140bpm. But the project is set to 127.4 bpm.

So despite the bounce taking place in Ideas view and being bounced from a Scene that is clearly set to 140 bpm, and plays at 140bpm, the bounce is recorded at 127.4 bpm and then put back into the track as a 127.4bpm piece of audio.

This isn't how I expect Bounce to work.

Lionzinio

And if I then use the Audio controls to change the tempo of the bounced audio to the correct speed, it does, finally, play back the audio as expected.

Blimey that was painful….

Lionzinio

Ironically, simply muting everything else and using the audio drag feature allows you to drag a perfectly timed bit of audio to another pad…

So much simpler.

katto

Yeah I noticed the same :) Bounce would be good in M Plus standalone though.

DiosGnosis

In my mind, the tempo should be inherited from the project, not the tempo shifted instances within the scenes.

Is Maschine 3 currently the only app/DAW attempting tempo shifts in a project? If not, how are other developers approaching this scenario?

katto

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188942#Comment_188942

Well in something like Cubase you bounce always what you hear.

DiosGnosis

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188945#Comment_188945

But does Cubase handle multiple tempo signatures the way Maschine 3 is attempting to (ie Master Tempo = Project Tempo & tempo shifts baked into Scenes)?

NI might be breaking new ground here. I'm not much into shifting tempos in my projects, albeit, I understand the desire for the feature.

That said, maybe the feature DOES work as the NI developers intended, and we just need to understand how the feature prioritizes the various tempos, which, it sounds like the bounce feature defaults to the project tempo…?

Lionzinio

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188945#Comment_188945

This.

1 billion percent truth.

I cannot imagine a scenario where I would expect a bounce to sound any differently from what I hear when I play it.

In this case, the pattern is at 140bpm and the scene it's in is at 140 bpm and every time it plays it plays at 140bpm. So I really should hear the bounced audio at its original tempo of 140bpm.

Logic Pro X gives me total control over the tempo of bits of my compositions. I can change the tempo of a region and bounce that region and it will always sound the same after I have bounce it as it did before I bounced it.

That's what it means to be bounced.

DiosGnosis

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188960#Comment_188960

I work with Logic. I understand what 'bouncing' is in terms of how traditional DAWs handle the function. However, Maschine software is not a DAW per se so, it stands to reason that tempo shifts are prioritized differently by the software and thus, bouncing is also beholden to this prioritization.

Maschine 3 handles composition in a quasi linear fashion with elements of 'stacking' for lack of a better term. Sounds are stacked into Patterns. Patterns stacked into Scenes… So, in addition to an overall project tempo (which Maschine 3 software potentially reads as the 'static' bpm for the project) we now have the ability to assign different tempos to various Scenes.

Should that overwrite the project bpm/tempo when bouncing? Maybe. Obviously, we should hear the tempo shift for that Scene, and perhaps you are correct, a Bounce should be what is heard.

It could be a bug or it could be that our understanding of how Maschine software handles composition, tempo assignment and playback with the new feature needs refinement.

I promise, I'm not trying to be difficult. I really am attempting to understand how the Maschine 3 program would handle the various tempos and how it would decipher which tempo to associate the bounce with if multiple tempos are present.

Lionzinio

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188974#Comment_188974

I think it’s far more likely to be a result of no one considering I might want to bounce something that isn’t at the same tempo as the Project. So rather than bouncing the actual output of the pad (ie what we hear when we play it) it ‘plays’ the pad in the background at Project Tempo rather than Scene Tempo.

So it’s not a well thought out system deliberately developed for Maschine for some unspecified purpose. Just an unfortunate implementation of the bouncing process that doesn’t recognise or wasn’t prepared for the Scene Tempo changes that came with the 3.0 update.

In short, a bug that needs correction.

ozon

As you’ve said you’re part of the Beta programme, please file a bug report.

ozon

You can also change the Audio module to a Sampler module and the bounced sample will sound at the correct pitch and speed. Also, if you insert a new Audio module, then load the sample into that, it will adopt the BPM from the sample file which is 140 BPM.

Thus it seems, the loop is bounced correctly. But the Audio module inserted by the Bounce process defaults to the Tempo of the Project, instead to the Tempo of the sample file.

ozon

Report filed.

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