S88 Mk2 - Noisy Keys - Fixed - Instructions

rdalcroft · 2022-03-04T04:58:10+00:00

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For anyone interested in the Clicky Key issue many of us have had. A high pitched rattle or click when you press the keys, or rub your hand along the keys..

Me I have sent my S88 Mk2 back to Native Instruments under warranty, because of this issue, but only for the issue to come back with a vengeance after 8 months.

The cause: After coming to the conclusion that it may be either a grease, or Lack of grease issue, I decided to purchase both Grease and Felt strips, just in case. I only wanted to open it up once. After watching a few Videos from Youtube (Linked at bottom of post)

The issue is there is almost no Grease on the posts, mine were almost completely dry. So there is no cushioning between the Keys and the inner post, its plastic on plastic, hence the loud click. So removed the keys 1 octave at a time, and greased the posts, I made sure to test each key as i put them back in, moving them laterally side to side to see if there was any movement or hitting of plastic. For the black keys there is a square slot, where i just filled this up with the grease rather than the post. But on the white keys there is no slot, so I greased the actual posts for those.. Very important to test them as you pot each key back in, as a few i had to remove and add more grease. You want no side to side movement when you test this with your finger.. gently though no force needed..

While i was there, i also cleaned the velocity membrane with alcohol, and a q tip for each octave, this is optional, but I thought since i was in there, it would not hurt to do so..

Picture below is how you remove each key. You force the key towards the back of the keybed, pushing down slightly at the pivot then lift up, the key comes off..

Below showing the direction to push to release the keys, also the posts for each of the key types

Below a better image of the posts with the grease on.. I snapped these from youtube, as i did not think to take pics while i was doing mine.. sorry for that, a missed opportunity for a video. I was a lot more liberal with the grease, than in these pics..

Hope this may be useful to some, I know not everyone would be keen on opening up their S88, But i know some of you would, and knowing the cause of the click or rattle, and a simple fix.. Basic technical ability required. Just go slow, watch the video, the hardest part is probably, connecting the data strips on the circuit boards there are 4 of these..

Some Links to youtube vids, and the Grease I Used:

SUPER LUBE 85G 2105011 By LOCTITE : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive (Grease used)

https://youtu.be/LcOH6BN-FvE (How to open the S88 mk2)

https://youtu.be/ZWplHbi6t0U (Fatar tp100 Same keybed, Shows the greasing of the posts

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rdalcroft

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/101558#Comment_101558

I believe the s61 Mk2 is a totally different mechanism, probably spring-loaded keys. So, they would not degrade in the same way, as there is no grease, that can wear down. But I am sure that over time, the S61 will develop different issues. I am pretty sure the S61 and lower models do not have the clicky key issues.

They can have the dead key issues though, but just as easy to fix, as its just a matter of cleaning the membrane with some alchohol, and you are good to go. Probably an easier keybed to maintain.

TackEm

Hello, I also have a problem with my KK S88 mk2. It's not really a clicking noise but rather 1 key that has significantly less resistance than the others. The connection is still good but it's a problem of touch sensitivity, the key sinks much faster than the others and therefore with less velocity. If I understand correctly it could be due to a lack of grease which reduced the resistance of the key? If anyone has an opinion on this subject I'm interested! Thank you very much?

rdalcroft

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/183962#Comment_183962

Hello

you say the key feels looser than the rest. So it presses down much easier/faster? That would mean a higher velocity that the other keys. Because it’s sticking the 2 carbon pads quicker in succession.

If this is the case. Then it could either be grease, or maybe the key is not fully clucked in to its swivel/hinge. With your thumb on the front of the key, put pressure on it, pushing the key towards the back of the keybed. Not much force. See if it clicks back in place.

If not that.

Then either grease or hinge or hammer, the weight at the other end of key.

But most likely it’s a grease issue.

Are you confident in opening it up ? Set aside 2 hours. Take your time. Watch the YouTube videos I linked.

Good luck.

TackEm

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/183969#Comment_183969

Hello and thank you for your feedback. It is indeed a velocity problem and therefore a key that sinks faster than the others without much resistance. I tried to push the key as you advised but unfortunately it did not change anything. So I think indeed that it is a lack of grease but I admit to being quite afraid to open it. I watched the videos and it seems quite complex anyway. Well I will think about it... In any case thank you

DannyAcuna

This is great information and thank you everyone for all this input. NI's support is completely worthless when it comes to this known issue. One would think that they would have this information in a KB somewhere given it is their product, instead of having to resort to word of mouth in the community setting like this. Definitely rethinking buying their hardware again. I had a Roland xv88 for 20 years and the keys never had any issues whatsoever. I've had this MK2 S88 since 2021 and most of my keys rattle now and it is very distracting.

rdalcroft

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/186412#Comment_186412

totally agree with everything you said. It’s why I created this post after doing it myself.

Maybe help out a few who are in the same boat.

There defo needs to be a service manual to tackle this issue. As most of these issues are going to appear just as your keybed goes out of warranty.

It’s totally shameful of Native Instruments to charge so much for a product that basically lasts 1-2 years before the grease degrades and you end up with a rattling creaking keybed.

It’s a bad design. And I really don’t understand why they stuck with the same keybed for the MK3.

Shameful!!!

TackEm

Hello everyone,
I agree with you so much, it's shameful. Native instrument doesn't care about its customers and also increases its prices from generation to generation without providing real superior quality to its keyboards. After a few days of thinking I think I'm going to start repairing my keyboard and add the missing grease. I only have one key that has this problem for now but it is of course one of the most used (G in C4) and it's becoming too annoying I watched the videos and I think I can do it. Do you have any advice to give me about the right grease to buy? There are many choices (on Amazon or elsewhere) but I don't know which one is best suited to our situation. My apologies if this question has already been asked :) Thank you if you have a reference to recommend to me.

rdalcroft

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/186721#Comment_186721

hello

I have used this 3 different times now. It’s the best one if you can get it. Try eBay.

other advice. Take it slow. Especially with the ribbons. The clips can be fiddly. But u have done it 4 times in total now. And have not broke anything yet.

Do all of your keys. Black and white. No point opening it all up to do just one key. As the others will go the same way eventually.

The black keys are easy as there is a nice square slot to put the grease in. And it will stay there over time.

The white keys. You have to judge where to put the grease. Just take note of where the post fits in to the key. Then put grease on either side of the key (internal).

Also do the posts as well. You don’t need much. It’s just to act as a dampener so you don’t hear the click of plastic against plastic.

Put aside 2 hours. Maybe 3. For your first attempt.

I wish you luck.

TackEm

Thanks for the information. Yes once opened I think I will do all the keys so as not to have to do it again in 1 month :) I see that you bought 50G, was that enough for you?
I found this for example but there are many different references concerning molycote grease, do you think that this one will do the trick? thank you very much.
Musically
https://www.amazon.fr/Molykote-Moly-Kote-DX-P%C3%A2te/dp/B078MDD9D4/ref=sr_1_9?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.YNmpCYaql39gfJ9-io2Ilsv12KslppOuOkBRIRI63ILwo-OLuWNxHQzjt0dF6miJDzp2gu9NUAo235F8QLIrtVT-AtD1tWaiIO898mUbqoMCQbDxJZ1ZYhYJfrg7L1B2JdfDe806iN6ax2 GhFRnrToE6Ft__hRMNuwgENXhbsGmlheWYW6SEZv-_L9TEuM7xVMEZ3yfQdQXWKa-Rz5d9TwctpipYjsH64_3wBX1GEUJiQev0BeeIcFipkgBVYFpAThHCu7DRK6F1uC7MyOaI-wHMglY_xv2GkY dRv9HBKe8.01qIPYIWsLk2EZK3XfbpzD8VTXpnV16DphdH8PyxmDw&dib_tag=se&keywords=MOLYKOTE&qid=1730196102&sr=8-9

rdalcroft

that may be too thick. I did buy a molycote grease but it was very thick and a little sticky. But it slowed down the action of my keys too much.

So be careful. It’s hard to tell as all the molycote tubs are the same colour. I can’t remember which number I got.

rdalcroft

sorry yes I meant to say the 50g tube was enough.

I probably use too much. So it may be enough for 2 uses.

But for me I end up using nearly all of it. Lol

TackEm

Thanks :) I posted a message to the community to see if anyone had any information on the right grease but I was also able to see a video in which they talk about the TF Silicon + PTFE grease" from AG Termopasty. Well I'll continue to find out before playing doctor and operating... ;)

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