Kontrol 2024 outlook: what was, what now, what next?
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Actually there have been some very long and detailed discussions in this forum by a number of NI people regarding these issues going back into last year. Unfortunately they're scattered all over this forum and NI has been pretty forthcoming with owning up to their mistakes, and the steps they've taken to get things worked out.
I don’t recall (happy to be proven wrong) NI releasing an official announcement apologising for the screwup.
While the staff posting on here have been extremely helpful, and while I can tell from their wording that they are sorry and are as frustrated as most of us have been, I don’t recall one single post from any of them actually saying their company got it wrong, and apologising. This isn’t me having a dig at them, it’s simply that their bosses simply wouldn’t allow them to say that.
I agree with everything else you say0 -
Thanks.
I’ll give it a go over the weekend and see how I get on
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I guess it depends on what each person defines as having gotten "it" wrong. "It" varies person to person, but each person is different and you can't judge "it" based on a few people in a forum expressing what they think was a bad decision.
Was it wrong to make the strategic decision to move forward with the new standards being used in the industry rather than playing catch up later? If a person only examines it from their personal perspective and how it individually affected them they might say yes. Examined from the perspective of having a healthy and well positioned company to continue to be a leader in the industry and therefore benefit me as a customer over the long term, then no. The same applies to the changes in the interfaces of the various apps. Yes, your normal workflow may be affected so at a personal level you may feel that was a wrong decision. To some that just adapted and adjusted their workflow like I did, I have no problem with any of it. All of these things will ultimately be determined over time as to whether or not these current decisions were wrong or not. Not by the response of just a few people in a forum but by the acceptance or non acceptance in the marketplace.
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Might I ask any somewhat off topic comments be taken to a new thread?
This is intended as a roadmap update thread.
It's also clear that as threads grow longer, the presence of earlier comments gets lost, or overlooked. Such appears to the case of my many messages over the last year explaining exactly what's been going on.
As it happens - once MIDI Templates launches, and I update everyone on Play Assist, this thread will be closed, and a short while later, a new thread will be opened on the next few months of roadmap updates.
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Well, to be fair tho, when it's a good 5 month span between the announcement on what is coming and any sign of the first real thing from that roadmap being close to release, all people really have to do is discuss things in the meantime. Especially when it was stated in the opening post that one point of user frustrations IS the slow pace of updates. This has not improved as yet. Not to forget that this roadmap was also posted after the product had been released already for 4 months and what is slated as coming features are either adding BACK lost/basic functionality and not anything beneficial for existing users at all.
Also I have always found the removal of the Maschine buttons bizarre even tho I am not a Maschine user, especially since I assume Maschine will soon have some updates. There is this statement:
The Maschine integration –beloved by those who used it– was rarely used en masse and unwieldy to maintain. The (exponentially larger audience of) Kontrol-only users would often express confusion at the seemingly “broken” or “non functional” buttons.
Why not take the suggestions made over the years and offer MIDI mapping of these buttons when not connected to Maschine so users could add some useful functionality in a DAW instead of completely removing integration with your own products?
Seems strange rather than innovate and offer improvements, things are just ripped out and disposed of completely and I can't understand how it could have been difficult to maintain given Maschine software has barely changed in years compared to almost every other DAW out there that has seen constant improvements and version releases. If this is the case, stands to reason that ANY of the DAWs that have integration could also become unsupported overnight due to the "too hard" basket…
We improved the capabilities over time, creating a more equitable music making experience for all with Accessibility features,
Well, we could argue about the improvements over time, some would suggest the current V3 software offers rather the opposite of improvements and the previous changelog is a clear showcase of what little has improved in the 10 year life cycle of the MK1 and MK2 keyboards.
Then we have the part about Accessibility where you released the current generation without this feature and no clear sign if/when it will ever be back, no actual statement or clear information that the new MK3 does not include this (which one would easily assume has this basic feature also) causing much frustration with this user base.
I feel there is a bit of a disconnect as to exactly why these threads end up "off the rails". I think for any new user doing their homework it is a good insight into what has been a problem for years (slow to no real development) and what potentially will be the experience if you happen to be affected by one of the problems of lacking functionality.
Sure, it's mostly people that are not happy slam the boards BUT there are those of us who have considerable post counts with previously years of good experiences that can offer a longer term insight into things for those new users who want to find out what is going on and that I feel is just as important as the promise of what we might see some time in the distant future to save maybe some false hope.
I mean, just imagine that kid last year who is so into music but is blind, receives his MK3 for Xmas as his parents researched for months on the subject of accessibility, only to get it all setup and find out there is no such feature anymore and when asking the question, literally gets "The latest version does not have accessibility features, it is something we eventually plan to reintroduce but not in the next year…". Honestly, that is really a huge dissapointment. Sure, statistically not all that common, but just one of many examples that culminate into a larger picture.
This is why people will be constantly pointing out things like this in these kinds of "what is coming" threads.
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Ok thank you again for open transparency.. almost a year and play assist we still have to wait for I have not even researched what midi templates is for or do I care.. I have been a customer since 2013 and another product since the '90's the slow pace for improvements to what the product advertised for is mind boggling.. so 2026 my mk3 will be outdated then it will be useful.. really I'm no joke I have turned it on 20 times.. I use my other tools to get the job done.. I took another batch of money to invest in NI to be fleeced again sad state...
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you should pick up a used Novation SL mkiii, I did. No regrets. It’s a different workflow and really does open your eyes to new things. I know it came out 5 years ago, but it is still entirely relevant, especially for template, key switch guid lights, and external hardware control (the things we are waiting on NI to produce).
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Totally agreeAlso I have always found the removal of the Maschine buttons bizarre even tho I am not a Maschine user, especially since I assume Maschine will soon have some updates. There is this statement:
Why not take the suggestions made over the years and offer MIDI mapping of these buttons when not connected to Maschine so users could add some useful functionality in a DAW instead of completely removing integration with your own products?
Totally agree.
What I personally find weird, my two main keyboards both bought January.
S88 mk3 with no sliders and less buttons than the mk2 (and, as minuscule as this might seem to most, the power button in a very stupid place for those of us with the keyboard on a pullout shelf)
Arturia Keylab 61 mk2 with tons of buttons and sliders.
I absolutely love and adore them both. Both very well built. Both very different, one minimalist, one with buttons and knobs everywhere
I was debating for ages which way to go, do I get 88 note Keylab and 61 note S mk3 or do I go for what I ended up getting, 61 note Keylab and 88 note S mk3.
I made the right decision, having all the knobs etc on the synth feel keybed rather than the piano feel makes much more sense. Although I do wish both had sliders and that the s88 had an extra knob dedicated (by default) to the overall volume of whatever instrument I have loaded.
Having these two keyboards works excellently for me, I even only need one sustain pedal, doesn’t matter which of the two I plug it into, it sustains both keyboards.
There’s something about the S88 in my opinion, can’t put my finger on it, it just oozes quality, the feel of the knobs etc, the clearness of the screen (although I hope they make more use of it, personally not interested in a static picture of whatever instrument I’m using taking up 3/4 of the screen)
I know the keybed isn’t the best piano like keybed, my Casio PX 870 piano that this replaced had a much more accurate piano feel in my opinion (mind you, others on piano forums didn’t rate my Casio all that well), but the Casio was bought as a piano whereas this was bought as an 88 note midi controller and while I didn’t expect it to be as quite good, it’s still a very very very nice keybed to play and again in my opinion it compares very very favourably against other companies 88 note midi controllers.
So, for me, while I do worry a bit about future software development as I’ve said in earlier comments, I am very pleased with my S88 and very pleased I decided to buy it.
However, this only works so well for me as I have all the extra knobs and sliders on my Arturia.
If I had just one keyboard, had I gone the S mk3 series, I’d have had to also buy something like the Studiologic SL Mixface.
If I didn’t also own maschine, I’d have also bought something like the Presonus Atom to go along side my Mixface.
Not a huge deal really, although some may argue that with the cost of the S mk3 series, we shouldn’t have to fork out on additional sliders and pads.
Others of course will argue that they don’t need or want pads and they would rather NI keep the minimalist look. Personally, while I’d like sliders, I do think pads would sort of ruin my S88, can’t put my finger on why.
Anyway, hopefully midi templates will be here any day now.
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I get exactly what you're saying. There's a simplicity and basic functionality about the S88MK3 that inspires me and makes me super productive just using the simple, basic tools it provides. It feels good and compliments the way I work in the studio which makes it a joy to use. I actually look forward to creating a new track on a project and am often very surprised at how quickly I can put several of them together in a single session. I think the extra stuff would just be a distraction in my case.
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Just checking
Just checking to see if we are on track for the update..
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Well, July 31st came and went but according to Native Access there are no updates.
Is anybody surprised?
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I am sure it will be rushed out any time soon if for no other reason than to stop further moaning. Push it out now, fix it up later…
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Confused we waited 10 months just to get midi templates update which i wont even use? There no fixes to the software...wow
Watch the video you can create templates but you have a black screen can you add a image?
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Hi and thanks for your advice. Trying to honor @Matthew_NI 's plea to keep this to roadmap topics, but to quickly answer your question, I've been eyeing them on Ebay and Reverb, but the Novation will have to wait…because I blew the budget and just bought a "gently used" (lol) Yamaha Montage M6; due to arrive this week! Going to remap the living room so that I can play my Fantom 6 and my Montage 6 together, lol! Both have good DAW control, so I will be bringing one or the other into my home office/studio from time to time to record.
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They never said anything will be released on July 31st. It was 1st Aug the intended date for the update and firmware to go live.
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