Kontrol 2024 outlook: what was, what now, what next?

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  • Super8boy
    Super8boy Member Posts: 89 Helper

    or maybe control wasn’t great to start with so people use a dedicated other controller for the daw.
    doesn’t mean it deserves to be dumbed down by NI

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 982 Guru

    As a manager, I constantly catch people who grossly underestimate the time it takes other people doing the things! Some of them even underestimate their own ability to do the things. And EVERYBODY underestimates the Q/A and testing needed, plus the documentation that never seems to be able to write itself! 😏

    The problem is, metrics will flag you and bean-counters will hound you if you exceed a + or - 10% variance on what you said the project would take. And then people don't want to do those jobs anymore, so they jump teams. Or worse, they jump ship. And it always takes forever + a month to hire somebody new.

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 674 Guru
    edited May 25

    A matter of opinion, perhaps. I was happy with Mk2 as control surface for Logic Pro and I am nearly happy with Mk3, which is only going to get better. I don’t like to have many things on my desk doing the job of one well designed thing 😉

    Unless you need lots of moving faders, then SSL is your friend (or Icon, if the budget is tight).

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 973 Guru
    edited May 25

    Over my decades long career in product management I can't even count the number of organizations that have these same deficiencies. The reality is the "bean counters" are only there to CYA for the management as they provide nothing of substance for those that actually have to deliver the projects. The bean counters have no skin in the game.

    The reality is the only thing that ever matters in the delivery of a project are the milestones, and if those milestones are determined and owned by the group doing the work you have a MUCH better chance of delivering on time. Individual tasks often need to be changed during the course of the project and work often need to be re-allocated, but a well defined and measurable level of functionality defined by a milestone rarely does if done right.

  • Beatsandmore
    Beatsandmore Member Posts: 141 Advisor

    To be honest the only take away from buying mk3 is that it works with kontakt 7 but missing play assist feature is the downside.. I cannot use kontrol software at the moment.. needs alot of work using it in my daw cubase 13..

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 982 Guru

    The reality is the "bean counters" are only there to CYA for the
    management as they provide nothing of substance for those that actually
    have to deliver the projects. The bean counters have no skin in the
    game.

    The problem is, the bean counters aren't necessarily from accounting. Sometimes they're from school. School is the WORST place to find decision makers.

    I've had only a couple of team members who actually came right out of school and became high-performers within 6 months to a year. Most team members, as good and as knowledgeable as they may be, were not high performers right out of school. We actually needed to train some or all of the schooling out of them, lol!

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 973 Guru
    edited May 28

    Well that's really more of an organizational problem than a technical one. In any project there are several disciplines involved throughout the development cycle, but they all have responsibilities and goals that are not things a person can really take on without a fair amount of real world experience.

    Take for example the definition of what the end product needs to provide in order to be worth the investment of time and resources. For that you need someone that understands the business and can prioritize the business case for each capability. Those are, by necessity, bean counters because they're dealing with ROI.

    But then you have the technical delivery people that can understand the complexities, challenges, risks, and costs involved in building it and testing it. You can only learn those thing through actual real world experience and no classroom can teach that.

    You have to have had enough time to fail in order to learn some lessons.

    I'd also add the high individual performers are not always the best choice for these kind of things. They work better alone and focused so they tend to struggle with the abstract concepts of balancing the interaction between time/resources/functionality that lies at the core of project delivery.

  • Beatsandmore
    Beatsandmore Member Posts: 141 Advisor

    Patiently waiting hopefully something this month that will improve komplete kontrol software and controller..

  • Jota Sotodiaz
    Jota Sotodiaz Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    I have recently entered the NI environment, and it can be overwhelming. I see a lot of opportunities for improvement. Reading this chat, my anxiety started playing out—did I make the right decision? The Kontroler looks great and has a good key feel with some cool libraries. However, there's a lot more that can be done with DAW integration, especially with Logic automation of sends and Aux channels. Also, FX automation in the Komplete Kontrol plugin section is a must for me

    hopefully we see some updates soon.

  • Duffcat
    Duffcat Member Posts: 44 Helper

    @Matthew_NI I am a member of Kontakt Beta team but does that make me elligeable for the MK3 firmware Beta?

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,454 mod

    If you have the MK3, yes. It'll be released to the beta group soon. Of course, you can't talk about that here though.

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 973 Guru

    As best I understand it I think the current version being worked on should improve the DAW automation aspect. As far as improvements in FX automation within the plugin really depends on what the plugin offers in that regard. Some are pretty extensive others depend more on pairing up external plugins.

  • oysterhead
    oysterhead Member Posts: 7 Member

    So the original post on this topic by @Matthew_NI was on March 4, and while the post indicates “edited May 15” there are some timeline estimates that have come and gone.

    That’s totally OK, I’m not here with pitchfork and torch. :)

    But could we please have a revision on timeline, at least as far as (1) MIDI Template and (2) Play Assist features are concerned? A “rough estimate” is all I’m asking for, and at this point I’m totally fine if you just make up a date like Augtember 32nd.

    Apologies if I’ve somehow missed a post in the first 40 pages that gives a revision.

    When this thread started, I was holding off buying a new S-series Mk3, but I’ve since bought the S61 Mk3 and am eager to have it become my primary controller, but for me that means MIDI Templates and Play Assist features need to be functional.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,973 Expert

    Well, I always operate under the guise that something claimed today as coming in the future may just be here before the end of time itself if lucky. That is as reliable as I can pin down and the only way you can have the slightest expectation without constant dissapointment.

    Assume what it does right now is all you will ever get, tho never assume you are going to keep all the features it offers because as KK V3 has proven, even the features that we did have can be stripped out or messed up.

    Nope, the issue is the way KK hosts plugins. There is not enough capability to fit all the automatable parameters of all plugins within a chain to allow control of everything from a DAW so the "fix" was simply to not allow control of the plugins from the host, only the instrument.

    The way most large plugins overcome this is to force the user to "enable host automation" for parameters they want to control from the DAW to generate a host automation table the DAW can use to map to parameters but this cannot be done in KK due to how it is designed to work with the hardware, and not something I think anyone wants to have to do anyway.

    As far as I understand, it will never be possible to automate FX loaded in KK from a DAW unless they can either auto generate a host automation table or force users to enable automation on the parameters they want to record which is the main reason we use KK to NOT have to mess around doing that with things like UVI products or Omnisphere for instance which is a pain to automate in projects without a lot of initial messing around. Maybe a separate FX version of KK would solve that, but that's a feature that has been requested for years and so likely, we won't see that happen in our lifetime.

    This is why it's just less headache to directly load your FX into your DAW, not to mention far better on performance than having everything loaded into a single instance. Leave KK as just a simple preset browser for instruments and that is it.

  • Sunborn
    Sunborn NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,091 mod

    @bycsounds please use this discussion for your request to bring back sub-banks (though it was already asked, again and again and again by almost all members here!), or any other similar suggestion concerning the future of Komplete Kontrol.

    Thank you :-)

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