What does NTKDaemon service do?

SF_Green · 2023-02-14T22:54:29+00:00

There was an error rendering this rich post.

I have to admit I've always been suspicious of the NTKDaemon service, but there have been statements from NI people here saying it's just for login and access to Sounds.

However, I constantly see the NTKDaemon service using high amounts of CPU time and activity after a fresh boot and other times when my Komplete Kontrol S88 is off and no other NI software has been started since boot that the service is active and using a fair bit of CPU time. I've even reverted to Native Access 1, and the daemon service is still very active on a regular basis.

Is NTKDaemon being used for telemetry and NI is lying to us, or is there some other BELIEVABLE explanation for why this is happening? Sorry but the general state of affairs these days just leaves me highly suspicious of any big software/tech company. Microsoft, Google, Facebook - liars all. Not saying NI is in the same league as them, but still not feeling inclined to be overly trusting these days.

A folder directory in Mac showing a file titled NTKDaemon Installer

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tempsperdu

Vocalpoint
In the grand scheme of (potentially) thousands of users (most likely
10's of thousands) - 99.99% of whom do not come here or even know this
forum exists - I think it is very fair to say nobody really cares one
way or the other.

In the 'grand scheme of things' how many users are affected by current issues is an unknown, but it is probably larger than you would like to believe, and believe you me they do care about whether the software they use can be deemed fit for purpose or not. Most would think the company behind the software should care too.

DunedinDragon
If you truly want a bug like that fixed your outlet is the customer
support group. At least there they will have a chance to collect all the
details about your specific setup which will give them a better chance
of isolating what's causing it, then they can press forward with the
analysis and planning to address the problem.

It's rather probably erroneously assumptive of you to consider that that route hasn't already been tried.

It isn't a question of anyone treating the NI development group as if they're their personal support
staff and should prioritize whatever bug is afflicting them. The bugs affecting people are actually making using the programmes somewhere between difficult and almost impossible. You're happy to believe that the numbers that are affected is far smaller than is probably the case, possibly because you and VP don't seem to be affected. I'm sure if you were, you'd be far from happy with someone who keeps saying, hey I'm alright so it's no biggie.

If the development was as disciplined as you seem to think, then you'd think they'd get all the basics working well before initial releases, but in the case of NA2, the various differing issues have been going on since its introduction which is how long ago………………

Jojo123

@Vocalpoint

Anyone trying to be the arbiter of what is what in the grand scheme of things, in the effort to detract or minimze peoples ligitimate issues, is NOT helping anyone. Sure its fine to say, hey, Im not experiencing this or that when it's relevant, so people can rule things out. It only needs to be said once, not over and over and over again. What is condescending and annoying is to be told we should have better things to do, when we have concerns about something. Neither is it helpful AT ALL to be told who our role model should be in what we care about.

You have no idea about the 99.999 whatever %. I hear this mechanism thrown at people to make them feel singled out. Please stop doing that. Any great business will seek to help every last customer they can. % shouldn't come into it. Its called integrity.

Dont get me wrong. Ive greatly agreed with many of the things you've posted over time, especially earlier on when this NTKDemon thing was being discussed. Then I see a different side of you coming through that doesn't help anyone, like when you just keep referring to yourself.

The thing you need to get a hold of is, NI did not place on their website anywhere any warnings that to get their software to run properly you need to have some degree or a high level of knowledge. Its easy for those who think they're technically proficient to condescend to those with lesser knowledge. The thing is people learn these things as they go, even if they are long time computer users, coming into a totally foreign and new eco system. (that was me BTW) You have no clue what level of knowledge people have when they buy NI products, or under what circumstances. Even NI doesn't. It would behoove them then, to put in a prominent place this warning. Of course they wont do that becasue they want as many customers as they can get in this money gabbing world.

Let me be clear once again. I have NO, that is ZERO, problems with the licensing of, and authorizing our products via a NA that works. I DO NOT AGREE WITH PIRATED SOFTWARE so yes NI needs to protect themselves. Other companies can do this without this other stuff going on. I would greatly prefer an offline system but I had to accept NA when I bought in. Thats on me. What I have a problem with is this DEMON running perpetually on my system using resources when its a service I seldom use…and it is NOT unreasonable to ask exactly what its doing in that way, like scanning. NA also is going through stages. We need to be told what's changed in those stages.

For sure theres been numerous issues with NA and Automatic Updates should be absolutely optional. Why NI would afflict us with this annoyance knowing full well there's issues is beyond any semblance of rationality.

mykejb

I agree that automatic updates shouldn't be forced, that goes for any software when the update is a "fixes things that some users have a problem with". I'd rather decide if I want to do an update that could destabilise my system, regardless of whether it's Native Access, an update to Kontakt that adds things I don't need or an update to Microsoft development tools.

I can understand the logic for using NTKDaemon as a background process. It's running as a privileged process so it can do updates without needing to confirm with the user every time (eg the UAC prompt on Windows). Does it do anything to stop piracy? Nope, not at all. I don't see why it should run all the time, although without looking I don't know if it's using resources when you're not running a NI product.

PK The DJ

@Jojo123 said "It only needs to be said once"

The reverse is also true.

The complainants only need to post about their problem once - but clearly that is not happening.

Some are worse offenders than others. Some who claim to have no time (when asked to diagnose or provide info) seem to find plenty of time to post in multiple threads, multiple times, saying the same old thing over and over. That's not helpful either.

tempsperdu

PK The DJ
The complainants only need to post about their problem once - but clearly that is not happening.

I think if what might be considered helpful responses occurred and problems were solved, that would be far more likely to be the case.

Complaining about people having issues doesn't really help anyone.

Jojo123

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/154655#Comment_154655

Thankyou for your post. I agree. What you've said is basically why I wont update KK or higher versions of K7. When functionality is removed such as drag and drop, why would I want to. I've been trapsing through the forums for well over a year seeing how things are going in the hopes to update things but with all this drama I'm holding back.

The thing is I like to control all my updates. Though I used XP up until recently before going Linux, for non musical stuff, Im not familiar with UAC prompt on windows. Im on Mac for music.

Others have said theyve noticed a continual CPU usage, one saying 5%. Thats ridiculous when we need all our resources to run our instruments effectively. The first place Id look is Activity Monitor but NA1 doesn't appear to run NTK D so I suppose Ive never had it running on my system so I can't verify. I have no problem believing it with all the other issues. Also its not conducive to being user friendly to have to go terminal to fix stuff, or registry editor per windows. Its a nightmare for newbies.

Does it do anything to stop piracy? Nope, not at all.

Thats music to my ears. Im not sure how you know that but if it doesn't do anything to stop piracy then in my thinking thats all the more reason it should not run all the time. When we start up NA to go and authorize, purchase, validate, download, then fine. What else needs doing inbetween this is the question.

Jojo123

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/154662#Comment_154662

I think you've misinterpreted what I meant.

In this context not necessarily. The reverse isn't always true, and if someones system is down and they're desperate for help, they may need to explain more than once and they may get help in other threads from others with similar problems.

When a person has a problem and they post about it, sometimes it can be very useful for someone to chime in and say, no I dont get that happening and Im running that same product, so the OP can then use that to rule something out. Past that, it becomes very annoying to hear over and over again someone come in on a thread and dont help but just keep saying how wonderful their system is and they never had a single problem and because they dont, the insinuation is you shouldn't either…

I do agree its not helpful if people say they have no time to give info then post a heap of stuff else where. Im not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't seen that, and NI forums are huge, I dont see everything.

tempsperdu

Jojo123
I do agree its not helpful if people say they have no time to give info
then post a heap of stuff else where. I'm not saying it doesn't happen,
but I haven't seen that.

Neither have I…………………………..

pnutbutta

If it's any help with all of this debate…native access latest update as of today seems to include a new version of NTK service.

tempsperdu

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/168282#Comment_168282

Sadly, it hasn't made the slightest difference to anything here, except when I turn off the NTK Daemon and NA2, the NTK Daemon is still going through my files even when it doesn't show up in task manager. It may have done this previously, but previously I hadn't thought to check if anything was going on after I shut NA2 and the NTK Daemon down.

Rather weird, wouldn't you say………………………………

pnutbutta

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/168442#Comment_168442

If I stop the service, it no longer shows in task manager or process explorer. How are you still seeing it run after stopping the service? The service will still be listed, but just stopped.

tempsperdu

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/168452#Comment_168452

Process Monitor

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon

Jojo123

Rather weird, wouldn't you say………………………………

Very. So the question is who's willing to give an explanation.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/168475#Comment_168475

I just tested this in Process Explorer.

Killed the NTKDaemon Service via the Services panel.

Fired up Process Explorer - filter on NTK - nothing shows.

There is nothing related to NTKDaemon running or consuming any CPU- so @pnutbutta has a point.

What are you seeing in Process Explorer if the NTKDaemon service is not running?

Screencap?

pnutbutta

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/168475#Comment_168475

Ah ok. So you are really digging into what NTKDaemon.exe is doing…

Well even using Process monitor… if the service is running, process monitor shows activity. Once the service stops running, all activity for that service/process in Process monitor stops. This only logically makes sense and behaves exactly like you would expect. I suspect you have other filters in process monitor that might make you think it is still running. Try only adding NTKDaemon.exe as the process name in the filters for all activity. Watch the timestamps. The last entry in process monitor should be just before you stopped the service.

In the…process of this though, I did run into NTKDeamon.exe just stopping responding altogether and even crashed process monitor. Can't even stop or restart the process now without a full restart of the computer. I wonder if providing NI some process monitor logs at a point this happens will help them narrow down the possible culprit if it is part of what is causing other people issues.

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