Issues with Komplete Kontrol 3.2.1 in Ableton Live10

Joshi 78 · 2024-03-27T13:38:58+00:00

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Since the new update Komplete Kontrol 3.2.1. Ableton Live project crashes, if it includes an instance of Komplete Kontrol - but only if I click on the specific track or try to delete it. As long as I don`t touch the track which includes Komplete Kontrol, everything works fine.

Dear Community...Does anyone has a good advice for me?

Thanks;)

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rdalcroft

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/28157/issues-with-komplete-kontrol-3-2-1-in-ableton-live10

Just a thought? Are you running MSI Afterburner? with RTSS running?

If so, either close it, or create a profile for Ableton and Komplete kontrol and Kontact in riva tuner and set:

First -On-screen display suport to off

Then- set Application Level to "None"

If not, ignore mt reply..😊

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/143995#Comment_143995

Quote : "Just uninstalling it and installing the earlier version is an understandable reaction in terms of getting stuff done, but
unfortunately it will mean if there is a bug it probably isn't going to get fixed until someone else encounters it now and we go through this
again.This is why it is better to work with support to troubleshoot a problem like this - for the ultimate benefit of the whole community"

Couldn't have expressed it better myself !

The viewpoints and frustrations of e.g. JesterMgee here and others is both very reasonable and very understandable and worsened by the fact that people feels ignored. As well as the stick with the old version attitude is understandable, but the downside is that it doesn't fix bugs with the new if we all just switch to old version rather than getting the bugs fixed with new ! Mind you , I do understand why some thinks that 'enough is enough' and can not be bothered to have to continue with what they think is a mess. (Especially someone like JesterMgee who has been a major contributor and at the same time feels ignored).

I did intend to try to address all that in writing the other day (ref. : over here and post below) while thanking JesterMgee for picking on Jeremy_NI rather than me 😁, but I never posted it since I did not expect neither my writing appreciated nor my sympathies understood ! But however I will have to support Kymeia's viewpoint 👍️ now that it has been brought up !

JesterMgee

While I agree that yes, where people can spend the time it is usually best to report bugs and issues to get things resolved, it is simply not possible for everyone to do this especially as I stated, just before a long weekend where you wont get any reply for days (maybe even a week). I only replied ion this thread with what I know is likely a solution because I knew there would be 4 days of silence and then likely a mountain of support tickets for staff to work through, could literally be over a week to even get a reply and I don't bother much here anymore, but I do like to try and help save some users some unneeded stress. Support has plenty of reports of these issues already, I can guarantee it.

If someone really wants to stick to the latest version and try work through the issues, sure invest the time to submit reports and videos of the problem and spend the time to work through the issue.

Not everyone can tho and I get a lot of people contact me direct after doing some updates and having things fall in a heap, some have tried the support routs in the past and haven't had good experiences, some just like to pick my brain because I am usually pretty helpful and straight shooting and invest my time on weekends and holidays. Now most have backup solutions but seldom do you want to roll back to a backup and risk losing more data/work if you can avoid it and in no universe can some of these places sit and wait a week for answers. If a solution works and takes a few minutes to do, the choice is usually pretty simple, most people care more about reliability and stability over beta testing issues and while reporting issues to try and help the wider community is all nice to do, it's seldom something people like to do unexpectedly and then wait unknown timeframes for a resolution. It's like expecting people stand around and wait for an elevator to be fixed when they could simply take the stairs.

My view is skewed because of both this and the fact I have invested countless hours and many bug reports myself over the years like many others have that have gone unanswered and unactioned. I have had it acknowledged that there have been failings with communication in the development/support team for KK in the past and even where many of my raised issues should have been actioned, it just makes it difficult to invest/suggest others invest more free time after so much of it has been ignored in the past and my aim is simply to save other users some stress and time and offer something I know will likely address the problem.

Users have free choice. If they want to go the support rout and try stick to the latest version then sure, go that way, maybe others will have some luck, if they want to take a solution that can fix their issue immediately by just rolling back, they can choose that too. I offered my best advice, based on my reasonable experience of the issues and the process.

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144089#Comment_144089

Not everyone can tho and I get a lot of people contact me direct after
doing some updates and having things fall in a heap, some have tried the
support routs in the past and haven't had good experiences, some just
like to pick my brain because I am usually pretty helpful and straight
shooting and invest my time on weekends and holidays.

You're not alone in trying to help people. We have AT LEAST 10-12 regulars showing up on this forum to assist. Even though I'm all elbows and knees (aka, clumsy), I still know enough to help get an OP to provide critical information that they left out of their original post. We're trying to help; each of us in our own best way. If you're getting random emails on weekends and holidays, maybe you should consider directing them HERE to this forum? It just sounds like you may be overworking yourself. Plus, it's not your responsibility to fix everybody's problems. LOL, achieving world peace would probably be easier!

I suggest that you give yourself a break and let this forum help them. That's what we're all here for! Otherwise, you keep overworking yourself and you let your great dissatisfaction with KK overhang and color your whole outlook on music and maybe even life too. For example, in this instance, you didn't ask the OP if he had deliverables that were time-dependent. THAT would have been appropriate, because the answer can guide your advice. But instead, you straight out recommended he fall back.

Now, yes…I think he may have indeed fallen back. But is it possible that by convincing him to fall back, we've taken away his agency in deciding FOR HIMSELF if he can help crowdsource a solution to his own problem? We get it, Jester, you're angry that we have to be our own testers and debuggers. And your anger is not misplaced. But that's why this forum is so powerful. We each get to choose how far we're willing to go and to what degree we want to have our own "can do" attitude.

Now, to the OP: Something else has been bugging me now, so please allow me to explain.

Your issues on Ableton Live 10 should be NO DIFFERENT than they would be on Live 11. I say that because I'm 99.999% positive that the functional underpinnings of Live 11 are no different than those of Live 10. And then Live 12 didn't change architectural support structures either.

So what I'm saying is that Live didn't go through a complete rewrite or a dev platform conversion to QT like Komplete Kontrol did…not for 11 and not for 12 either.

If I'm right on that, then there's something local on your machine that's messed up. You know, with your installation or configuration of either Komplete Kontrol, of Live (regardless of which version you're on), or both together.

And a Reminder for All: Everybody should know that there was a Kontakt 7 update just within the last few days too…to 7.9.0. None of the items listed in the Release Notes appears to have anything to do with behaviors in Ableton Live, but there WERE 7 items fixed in Kontakt. Plus, for those of us who have been paying attention, Kontakt updates usually follow Komplete Kontrol updates; just a day or three later, give or take. So it would probably be best if everybody is using the latest versions not only of KK, but also of Kontakt, since Kontakt is likely the most-used product within Komplete Kontrol.

JesterMgee

My suggestion to roll back WILL help others where they don't understand that V3 of KK is not just an update, it is a completely different application with potentially a whole new set of problems. Not everyone is willing to Beta Test and I am sure support is already overloaded with similar reports.

Thanks for your concerns over what I should do, do not waste your time tho in contemplating solutions for my situation, I am more than capable in assessing what I can and cannot do and my CHOICE to help those that contact me is based on wanting to, not to try and save humanity, it is looking after customers I have and listening to what their needs are.

Your issues on Ableton Live 10 should be NO DIFFERENT than they would be on Live 11. I say that because I'm 99.999% positive that the functional underpinnings of Live 11 are no different than those of Live 10. And then Live 12 didn't change architectural support structures either.
So what I'm saying is that Live didn't go through a complete rewrite or a dev platform conversion to QT like Komplete Kontrol did…not for 11 and not for 12 either.
If I'm right on that, then there's something local on your machine that's messed up. You know, with your installation or configuration of either Komplete Kontrol, of Live (regardless of which version you're on), or both together.

Sorry to say but all this does is highlight the issue as Komplete Kontrol, which we know, but without anything for the user to test/try. He knows it is something on his machine, seems he has not had issues until updating KK. Same as many and for now, the simplest solution it appears is to just roll back and see if it works.

Now, yes…I think he may have indeed fallen back. But is it possible that by convincing him to fall back, we've taken away his agency in deciding FOR HIMSELF if he can help crowdsource a solution to his own problem?

If he did fall back and hasn't returned, likely he is happy making music as users should be. Isn't THAT what the aim of things are after all, a HAPPY USER? Why not offer a solution that makes a user happy? And how is suggesting to roll back any danger to corrupting his ability of self decision? Question is rhetorical, I really am not looking for answers here.

Look, I get it. Some people want us to all work together like a big happy family and "Make 'insert country here' Great Again!". Some are willing to spend their free time to report bugs and chase down problems, that is great. I have been one of those users but have been majorly let down, and had it acknowledged, so am now relegating to the sidelines and awaiting actual major improvements and not just talk. I will add I am not alone. HOWEVER, I am STILL here TRYING to be positive, if I really didn't care at all I would have been gone at the start of the year.

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144230#Comment_144230

Quote : "Look, I get it. Some people want us to all work together like a big happy family and "Make 'insert country here' Great Again!". Some are willing to spend their free time to report bugs and chase down problems, that is great. I have been one of those users
but have been majorly let down, and had it acknowledged, so am now relegating to the sidelines and awaiting actual major improvements and not just talk. I will add I am not alone. HOWEVER, I am STILL here TRYING to be positive, if I really didn't care at all I would have been
gone at the start of the year."

If the above is supposed to be a picture of how you comprehend e.g. I to be then I would just like to add that that's not how I see myself. I am as tired as you of all the problems. And also like I wrote in the above then I completely acknowledge that 'major contributors' such as yourself feels let down and are unhappy about it all (which is really neither ideal nor how it ought to be).

I not being nearly as good at understanding all Komplete as you do then I can only wish that I understood it all as good as you do. But I have so much to learn and Komplete Kontrol is just a part of that so it's hard for me to get worked up over something that I have not invested as much in as you have ! Again , this is not about me not recognizing you and your contributions nor is it about me not appreciating you. And I have bought NKS stuff from Freelance Soundlabs.

My take is a bit different though. The way I see things is that both then N.I. must have major reasons for striking a course that is 'alienating' people such as yourself but also then despite how people take it then this is just another one of these situations where apparently the train is about to leave the station (or has left ?) and people can get onboard with it or stay back ! Whether we like it or not then N.I. is setting the course / selecting the track and I do not think that that is going to change and I think that in due course then there will arrive reasons why people on version 2.9.6 will start to feel left behind like e.g. in the same manner as with people with too old version of Kontakt ! I never even for a minute saw the 'free' "Jacob Collier Audience Choir" as just a nice gesture after I same day realized that it would require newest Kontakt ! It's understandable and smart , free gift for all users of newest version of Kontakt ! No matter if it is going to be with stick or with carrot then I can not imagine that N.I. will not drive customers towards using and buying their future concept products !

And Komplete Kontrol 3.x.x is just a sign of the times to come !

As far as I have understood then a lot of what were previously done in the app is now going to be done on keyboard, but other than that then I would rely entirely on good people like you to explain to me what is the greater difference between KK 2.x.x and KK 3.x.x (NKS wise and more) other than the dreaded not available as VST2..

DunedinDragon

My take on the OPs problem: @BIF is right in that the underpinnings of Ableton didn't change between Ableton 10 and 11, and even 12 for that matter. I'm a long time user of Ableton as well as Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol within Ableton.

The highest likelihood of problems is running Ableton with an older version of Kontakt or KK that's inconsistent with the version of Native Access you're running. Within the plugins category in Ableton for example I have both Kontakt and Kontakt7 listed. I actually need to delete Kontakt from that listing because I no longer use it..only Kontakt7. And that being the case I also have to make sure I have my Native Access is up to the most current version with everything correctly listed in order for things to work correctly.

For example, if you updated Access to version 3.9.1 and you run Kontakt rather than Kontakt 7 in Ableton, there's going to be a mismatch and you're likely to have all sorts of things missing or not working. I've actually removed Kontakt from my system and only have Kontakt 7 and of course the latest version of Native Access to avoid any problems and everything is working perfectly. I do occasionally run into older projects that reference the older version of Kontakt, but Ableton points out that it's missing which is my cue to change that reference to Kontakt7 and all is fixed.

Where this can really get to be a problem is when you try to maintain both an older version of Native Access and an older version of Kontakt as well as a newer version of Native Access and Kontakt7. Although this will work if they're matched up correctly within a project, in Ableton you can get all sorts of odd behaviors if you try to switch between the different versions and libraries you updated in the new Native Access don't match with the ones in the older version of Native Access.

For me it's just best and less confusing to update it all to the new versions and move on with my business.

rdalcroft

Kontakt 6 or 7 - It makes no difference if both are installed or one over the other?

I have both installed, and Ableton works fine with them both.

Kontakt only communicates with native access when in standalone mode. (as far as I am aware?)

So Ableton does not come in to the equation here? Native access does not, and cannot influence how Ableton works with Kontakt.. 6, 7 or both!

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144324#Comment_144324

As @DunedinDragon says in his post above, it may have nothing to do with the relationship between Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol, or between either of those and the version of Live.

It could have more to do with those softwares AND the version of NA you're using. I think it's very plausible that we may be entering a new era; one in which we can't really "opt out" of updating Native Access when it tells us to update it. Maybe an NI person will see this and give us some guidance on the topic.

I still think we should work FORWARD through these problems rather than dogmatically tell users to just roll back at any sign of trouble. If this OP rolled back, it will be so much more difficult to assess root cause.

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144324#Comment_144324

Yes, you can have them both which I did for a while, but it becomes problematic at some point when you choose to install a library that only works on Kontakt 7 as many of the new ones do because it's not always obvious which Kontakt has been loaded in an older project. And as more libraries are going to be like that it just simplifies things to not have to deal with the confusion and just have a single library source (NA) and a consistent Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol for all projects. At least that's how I've decided to do it and it's paid off in not only ease of transition but also in conversion and storage management of all my libraries.

Right now I'm about 50% through all my projects that I currently use week to week, so probably in another month or so I'll have everything converted and up to date. And they'll all be consistent with any new projects I develop. And Ableton does make reference to whatever Native Access the plugin comes from when it retrieves it, so by eliminating the older Native Access and older Kontakt and older Komplete Kontrol I immediately know when a project is trying to load a non VST3 version of the plugin and can replace it with the VST3 version out of the current NA. Not to mention I have ONE Native Access that shows the status and condition of all my plugins and whether or not any need to be updated. It also greatly simplifies the storage management of relocating my plugins to manage capacity across drives.

I'm not suggesting it's the only way to do it, just the way I've found to minimize problems and streamline my workflow during this transition. Plus it just seems to be in line with good system housekeeping and management.

JesterMgee

And Komplete Kontrol 3.x.x is just a sign of the times to come !
As far as I have understood then a lot of what were previously done in the app is now going to be done on keyboard, but other than that then I would rely entirely on good people like you to explain to me what is the greater difference between KK 2.x.x and KK 3.x.x (NKS wise and more) other than the dreaded not available as VST2..

@PoorFellow you need to learn how to use the quote system to make reading replies easier :)

What you highlight here is just one of the problems with V3 over V2. What you need to understand is some users that are like me have been using KK in the same way for 10+ years. A new user who has never used KK or maybe only used it to a basic degree will not experience the issues in the same way but here is a list of just what KK V2 does much better (IMO) than V3, all the bugs, compatibility and VST2/3 mess aside:

Simpler layout all in a single view! Biggest gripe is now you have tags, presets and the plugin all on separate panels. It feels clunky and unintuitive to drive compared to the nice list on the side of the window you could browse and filter while using the plugin. This is something if you search is echoed by many users on this forum.
As you mentioned "more is done from the keyboard" but not all of us like switching gaze to the keyboard. If you are like me you have the KB on a pull out draw and often the screen is not pulled out when hunting or just playing sounds. In many cases, I would still use the keyboard browser wheel and browse button to switch presets quickly while using the mouse to click parameters in the plugin at the same time, but I would often do that by feel while watching the KK instance on-screen. This is now no longer possible and the 2 are completely detached so no longer can you see what you do on the keyboard on the computer screen too!
The browser again, the list of presets is spread across a horizontal column browser now and scrolls sideways. This is not easy to scan fast through files for a certain name or sound type. Also, because these columns are a fixed width the preset names have now truncated/cut off a lot where previously, rarely ever was anything cut short. Some may be bothered more about this than others but every application and windows browser I use is just a single list, simple to scan with the eye.
The text brightness compared to the background for the preset list is also not as easy to read but that could be different for others, maybe those of us with colour-blindness are more affected.
The Banks are also heavily truncated and not simple to even see in the whole UI. Additionally, for many libraries there are no sub banks displayed which may be a bug but still yet to even be confirmed by support, just many users. .
System Efficiency! This may improve but the first thing I looked at when testing was the comparative CPU and RAM demands which I pegged at about 20-30% more than V2. THis was confirmed the resource demands to be higher because of the new UI and I guessed some users who had large sets with lots of instances of KK would likely find their system grinds to a halt. Those reports started coming through and users quickly reverted back to V2. I really valued KK for its efficiency and was a huge promoter around here on how much value it added for such little resources.
There has been zero new features introduced that users have asked for over the years that could have been super simple and very welcomed (other than resizable GUI which now is not as important given the old side browser and all the tag views is not visible with the plugin. Things like ability to filter OUT a tag for sounds you don't want in a search. Ability to SAVE a filter for simple recall anytime. A damn Random select or ability to sort the list of presets randomly to aid in "finding a gem" of a sound. These are just a few basic things that I recall being asked for way back with the MK1 by others…

I could keep going, but I think you see my point. The depressing thing is almost everything I have listed will not change, that is the way forward for KK and history tells me nothing we users say will make a lick of difference. There are other issues that have caused me dissapointment like a bug several of us reported with many VST3 plugins would not show the GUI in KK V2 in Ableton. This was closed off (incorrectly) without being tested or confirmed and I never even received a note my ticket was closed, I have been using VST2 for most of them still and this issue is STILL present in V3. This was all acknowledged as a failure in the testing and should never have been closed, but i've been sitting with my finger up my #$$ for 2 years waiting for a fix.

So, yeah, you get tired of things after some time and I am far from alone in almost all of this, just most others haven't invested so much of their life and have simply decided to walk away. It all boils down to the feeling no one listens or cares basically. Sure, you get more interactions on the forum these days which only took 20 years to come about, there is now more open-ness about what may be coming and the staff individually seem to be great people so nothing bad to say there, that is not the problem, the issue is it still feels like overall many of us are ignored or what we feedback just isn't important if it's not shared by 10,000 other users, something I have seen quoted numerous times about the decisions on why certain features are not carried into V3, because statistically it wasn't important (or phrased as a "priority") initially, something I feel blind users feel great about not having accessibility available in the updated version of KK yet, especially when Native Access forces that update on you if you don't check and are told to update all your software. This is where I do a lot of direct support, asking these users to try and jump through the hoops for support is more frustrating than offering clear and direct solutions.

rdalcroft

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144368#Comment_144368

But why would you not want to update to the latest version of native access??

Yes, the last few releases have been buggy, but that will iron itself out. There is no reason to stay on an older version of native access??

I think the issues faced here are probably to do with the bugs, (short term) which will not be a permanent thing. I do not see this as an issue over all.

PoorFellow

you need to learn how to use the quote system to make reading replies easier :)

@JesterMgee

Thank you for pointing that out , that made me actually look into it and I found out how to do it !

What you highlight here is just one of the problems with V3 over V2. What you need to understand is some users that are like me have been using KK in the same way for 10+ years.

←—Snip—→

VST3 plugins would not show the GUI in KK V2 in Ableton. This was closed off (incorrectly) without being tested or confirmed and I never even received a note my ticket was closed, I have been using VST2 for most of them still and this issue is STILL present in V3.

Thank you very much for your most generous explanation and for taking your time. Of course it is not alright if important bugs are not fixed and of course even worse if tickets are closed and you feel really ignored or sort of screwed.

I know the feeling, another brand I used promised updates (fix) of VST3 ability to something and they never did so yes I know exactly how that feels , which of course doesn't help at all !

For the rest of your explanation then I really appreciate you taking your time to let me be able to understand some more of what has been going on ! And I generally do I agree with you with respect to your griefs and I really hope that N.I. will improve user experience along the lines that you wish for ! 🙂

Kaldosh

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144193#Comment_144193

No changes between Abl 10/11/12 :→> How about the Python Version ?

Jeremy_NI

Think you are the one confusing things by not reading what the OP actually wrote. Literally the first words in his statement are:

Since the new update Komplete Kontrol 3.2.1.

Based on the sheer number of emails I personally get on this same issue, I assume he is using v2 and updated to V3 likely because Native Access forces you to without warning.

Well, it seems you assumed wrong, since OP was using 3.2.0:

Hi Jeremy…thanks for your reply. I`m on Windows 10 and since I update regularly the last Komplete Kontrol Version which worked should have been 3.2.0.

I'm very aware of these issues, we all are, we just need to be precise sometimes and not carried away by our own opinions. Now we have another 2 pages of debate we've seen over and over and over. I'll create a ticket for @Joshi 78 and see if my colleagues can help.

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