Software aside, how are people who own the S mk3 series liking or disliking it?
Comments
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Thanks for reaching out on this.
What I'd like to know are the development challenges introduced by the shift in strategies of having more processes handled by the on-device CPU and display.
I understand that some see this design approach as yielding advantages down the road.... BUT... for right now...
Has this design change made some fundamental features harder/slower to get done as opposed developing those same features just in the desktop environment?
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Sorry, but you have your facts incorrect. The S49 MK2 has a completely different keyboard bed and type to that of the S88 MK2. The keyboard on the MK2 s49 has a fatar synth action whereas the s88 MK2 has a semi weighted hammer action keybed similar to the new s88 MK3. I think that perhaps you're getting confused between the s61 MK2 and s88 MK2. The s61 MK2 shares the same keybed as the s49 MK2. I suspect you tried the S61 MK2 based on your reply.
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It depends, is the least satisfying yet most accurate answer I could give.
It hasn't made anything harder, or slower, it's just made the challenges different. There are definitely more up-front costs, which we've mostly paid pre-launch, to establish the new tech stack, given you don't inherit anything for free when starting ground-up. But doing more on device means fewer dependencies to contend with when it comes to the exponential number of variables that being a host inside a host inside an OS can have.
That doesn't mean development now is slower, though. If I look back, Komplete Kontrol has been updated 7 times in the 4 months since launch, and KSMK3 has been updated 3 times (one of which was silent). There's also another update due this month introducing full Sonoma compatibility, and beta updates due next month introducing MIDI Templates, Accessibility, Play Assist ahead of a Q2 launch. That's a very rapid pace, compared to the pace users had come to expect from us.
I think what's maybe behind the perception that we're slower (inverse is true) is maybe the strong desire to see some of these features re-introduced or introduced ASAP, and until they arrive, they're considered late.
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No it was definitely the S88 MK2. I understand it was the fatar synth keys the same as the MK2, but the action wasn't really like a true weighted key to me like the MK3 is. Just looking at the keybed you can see the physical difference as it looks the exact same as my S49 MK2. It may have had some slight weighting action but it wasn't anything like the Casio I wanted to replace with it.
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I'll bite...I've seen some comments on this forum referring to the S88 MK3 losing it's sustain pedal settings between sessions. It's easy to fix by simply tweaking one parameter on the keyboard setup pedals page, but it's there consistently when you first power up the keyboard.
My question is, I know you have a major release target for mid year, but are you planning on doing any intermittent maintenance releases on smaller bugs like the item above or will that have to wait until your big release later this year?
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Yes, we have two issues specific to pedals that we're tracking. They're next on our backlog after the occasional firmware bricking issue we resolved last week. To be clear, the two are:
- Bug: The Kontrol S MK3 does not appear to be recalling some pedal configuration settings upon power cycle. There's a communication mismatch between the device firmware and device software, as the data is being sent but not reflected.
- Improvement: The Pedal Calibration UX is confusing a lot of users. Just look around the forum, and you'll see a lot of posts about how pedals are not working. In 99% of cases, they work fine once calibrated properly, but there exist clear reasons for the confusion:
- Instructions say "move pedal all the way up" and "move pedal all the way down". With expression pedals, people get confused on what is up and down. It's really about max and min value. So a lot of users say "the calibration works if I do it backwards" but they're simply doing it correctly. We need to replace the misleading text with clear iconography.
- Some pedals are wired opposite to others (e.g. Tip Ring Sleeve, or Ring Tip Sleeve), or themselves have a polarity switch. Users think a pedal is not working, but actually it's a Polarity issue. We have a "Swap" parameter in Settings, that can be set to "Tip" or "Ring" but it is not clear to users why it's there, or when to use it. So we need to rename and make that clear as well. Plus auto detect in some cases.
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The look and feel/action of the s88 MK2 is totally different from that of the s49 mk2. They are totally different animals and don't even come close in a direct comparison. I have owned both a s61 MK2 (same keybed as the s49 mk2) and s88 MK2. They are nothing alike.
Watch a couple of YouTube vids featuring both keyboards too understand what I'm talking about.
I will go further and say for me the keybed feel and playability of the s88 MK2 is superior to that of the s88 mk3. I found the velocity curve was inferior (probably something that one could adjust too or maybe alter in the settings) and the after touch too heavy. The only thing I found to be a notable improvement was moving the touch strip above the pitch and mod wheels.
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I’m pretty sure you are mistaken. Mk2 S88 and mk3 S88 are the same model no keyed just that they’ve tweaked the mk3 a bit and put in poly aftertouch.
Read any mk2 comparison, they all say something along the lines of
”The keyboard feel varies depending on the model you choose. Each model comes with a pro-grade Fatar keyboard, with the S88 having weighted keys and the S61/S49 having semi-weighted keys.”
If you look at these pics, you can clearly see the mk2 88 is completely different to the mk2 41 and 61 note
.
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I know the keyboard I had was an S99. I bought it used and was told it was an MK2. The appearance of the keybed was the same as that on my the S49 MK2 just with 99 keys, not the solid keys (piano style) along the front side of the keys like those on the S99 MK3. The S49 MK2 which I purchased new and the action was very similar between the two and nothing at all like the brand new, direct from NI S99MK3, so I can't vouch for that other S99 being an MK2, just what I was told. Either way it was not what I was looking for so I returned it and got the S99 MK3 which I'm very happy with.
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You seem to have a problem with the amount of keys on different versions of the komplete kontrol keyboard range. If your so called S88 MK2's keys looked like the ones on your S49 mk2 keyboard you almost definitely had a S61 mk2. All of the S88 keyboards have had piano style keys. Nothing further to add to this.
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Out of the box the device doesn't work until you update the firmware and I've so far been unable to update the firmware due to software errors so... I can't say I'm thrilled with it.
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Could you start a new thread on the subject, so that we can get you up and running?
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I own S61 mk2 and have purchased S61 mk3 and can compare both side-by-side. My personal experience after a few days using both:
- Keybeds: they are NOT THE SAME. Feel of mk3 is closer to real piano/light hammer action than mk2. Spring rate on mk3 keys is slightly higher (needs a little bit more finger strength), but overall control over velocity, aftertouch, fast keystrokes etc feels much more quality, solid and can be played more precise and musically. Damping at bottom / key-down and overall key noise is significantly lower on new mk3. Switching back to mk2 after a while playing the mk3 makes the mk2 keybed seem "plasticky, simple, mechanical". I have 40+ years classical piano experience and quite good playing skills.
- Komplete Kontrol integration on DAWs is much improved. Browsing sounds via hardware is now much much easier, faster and joyful, I find myself mostly using mk3 now for choosing sounds / pre listening rather than mouse on laptop screen. Minor change but major time-safer in daily production life.
- "Maschine integration": I own a 2nd hand Maschine Mikro (paid 100EUR used): it fits surprisingly perfect on top of the S61 mk3. It does not seem like a coincidence to me but rather an engineered intention (see photo). Transport buttons are covered under Maschine, but could use Maschine's identical buttons instead. Plus I get 16 Pads in Midi-mode.
- 11" Apple iPad fits PERFECTLY on top of S61 mk3. Logic Pro X users can use the free "Apple Remote app" to add the "missing faders" and control mixer and other DAW features from top of S61 mk3.
Overall, for me the S61 is a strong update in terms of user experience, build quality, playability of keybed and definitely a keeper.
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Maschine Mikro on top of S61 mk3
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Perfect fit of iPad 11" on top of Kontrol S61 mk3, adding "the missing faders" for Logic Pro X users...
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