Software aside, how are people who own the S mk3 series liking or disliking it?

Ojustaboo · 2024-02-02T22:06:20+00:00

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I’ve got the 88 note mk3 and so far love it (firmware/software updates aside).

I know there’s a lot of upset over missing features etc, I just wanted to do a thread on what we like/dislike about the S mk3 series ignoring for the sake of this thread, the things discussed multiple times in other threads, like Maschine integration.

Having the pages grouped into tabs in those instruments that currently support it, is in my opinion superb.

I really like the feel/action of the S88 mk3.

I like the position of the ribbon controller

The more I get used to what button does what, the more I like it and the more I’m really impressed and glad I bought this instead of the mk2.

If I had to pick faults with the design, there’s two small things that slightly bug me.

1), the position of the on/off button, my S88 is in a pull out table/shelf and it would be so much easier if the button was on the top of the back, even better if over the left or right hand side, but where it’s positioned, I have to pull the S88 out far more than I would have liked to comfortably reach it.

2) Don’t know if it’s just my unit, but the pitch bend wheel makes a loudish (very noticeable) clunking noise when it passes through the mid/default point. This might be my imagination, but it also feels mush looser to push the pitch bend wheel up than when I pull it down.

This evening I had Komplete Kontrol open stand alone with a piano loaded. I then started my DAW (studio one). The S88 automatically went into DAW mode and wouldn’t let me select Browser mode or Plugin mode, bearing in mind I hadn’t even loaded/started a song/project in my DAW, I found this a little annoying, maybe it’s a setting I’ve got wrong, will have to have a good read of the manuals.

I also discovered tonight that I only need one sustain pedal. As I have both S88 mk3 and Arturia Keylab 61 mk2, I bought a 2nd sustain pedal. Tonight I realised that it doesn’t matter if I press the sustain pedal on my S88 or Keylab 61, either sustain pedal sustains both keyboards, which is really useful.

I bought both keyboards in January and every time I play, I end up telling my wife how happy I am with both of my keyboards, and how the more I use them, the more impressed I am by them. They work flawless together, load a sound on the S88, knobs/faders on Keylab 61 happily control same parameters as the knobs on the S88 etc.

Sure there’s a few software/firmware things with the S88 that need addressing , but overall I have high hopes for it in the coming months.

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BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/132989#Comment_132989

Consistent yes... but it does seem like a slowish pace for something so fundamental.

The more things broken at launch, the more that needs to be fixed.

What is the biggest reason for the slowish pace?

The more that needs to be fixed, the longer it takes.

What could speed it up?

The answer to this question differs every time.

In one case, you might need more people on the dev team. I've been on teams where the addition of just one "alpha dog" developer or troubleshooter was all we needed; 2 would have introduced conflicts, and 4 would have created chaos. You might not even need a technician, especially if a person skilled in setting priorities is what the team needs in that moment.
In another case, you might need more people on the testing team, or you might need to implement more automation for the testing team. Regression testing can take a long time; and might take exponentially longer the more options you are implementing.
In yet ANOTHER case, you might just need to pick the worst 2 broken things, have the team get started, then take up sword and shield and keep leadership occupied while your team works on those in relative peace and quiet. Ship those 2 things to QA, and get started on the next 2...and so on.

For each of these (and more)...yep; been there and done that!

And the worst thing is when you have a senior manager or VP breathing down your team's neck while they're trying their best to work through code and logic.

As of this writing, KK 3.1.2 has been released to Native Access. This is a good sign that we weren't made to wait until the end of February for it. Maybe the dev team can squeeze another sprint cycle in here in the 2nd half of February.

More frequent updates that address more broken things will, over time, help change customer perception for the better. And that help everybody get back to work sooner.

Maciej Repetowski

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133007#Comment_133007

I agree 100%. At one point, marketing guys decided that it is time to push it to the market and the design team/coders didn't have enough time to finish the product. This is most likely the case here, quite common practice, unfortunately, to the detriment of users.

MIDI templates editing, Accessibility and Play Assist on hardware were planned from the start, just "de-prioritised", due to lack of time and pressure from management to release the product.

Forgive me from saying so, but no other company (so far) managed to release a MIDI controller without ANY option to edit MIDI bindings, either via software editor or on the keyboard itself. This is just silly.

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133055#Comment_133055

It all depends on who's making the release decisions. If it's a security guy, he's going to want assurances that it's secure. If she cut her teeth coming up through the art department, it needs to look good! And if he spent 10 years doing QA and unit testing, then he might be more focused on no crashes. Marketing and bean-counting are going to have their own bugaboos that need to be calmed down.

I've worked in some companies where the decision to go live for this or that was from one person; maybe a VP who micromanages too many things. And other companies where it was a panel of people who decided. And yet OTHER companies where nobody really could say they absolutely knew how the approval happened, it just did and now the project has to be done last week!

All we can do now is look forward. And hope that Native Instruments has learned a hard lesson and doesn't let this all happen again in 10 years when they come out with Maschine MK4 or Komplete Kontrol MK4.

Maciej Repetowski

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133058#Comment_133058

Absolutely 100%. Acknowledging that this was rushed release of unfinished product (whatever the reasons) would be great to build trust with disappointed users, but NI will never do that, unfortunately.

So far, they have never admitted to do something wrong, it's always somebody's else fault, usually Apple's but recently also Microsoft's or foot pedal makers or Steinberg's or Ableton's or USB chipset makers.

Or users, who for some bizarre reason decided to run their monitor with 144Hz refresh. After all, everybody knows that 1080p at 60Hz is the "bestest of them all" 😂

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133061#Comment_133061

That's a great point. But our dear mods here probably can't take something like that upon themselves. It probably needs to come from one or more senior leaders...maybe even from somebody on the VC side of the house.

Personally, if we get on a regular semi-monthly release rhythm and we start to see some repeated wins, I'll be happy to forget my desire to hear an apology. After all, nobody died because of this botched launch, even though maybe some of us have had our life-expectancies shortened by a few hours from the stress, lol! So let's just get it fixed so we can all move on.

I think the months of March, April, and May will be the bellwether for us. Oh, and also Maschine MK4, as well as Komplete 15, when each is released in turn, both need to be smooth. No more gut-twisting surprises, NI! 🤨

Ojustaboo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133007#Comment_133007

Yep they slipped up, but I can guarantee with 99.9% certainty that the NI staff helping us out in on these forums are secretly/off the record just as pissed off with the buggy release as we are, they just can’t say so if they want to keep their jobs (which is standard for almost any company).

I would be surprised if some of them hadn’t warned the higher ups in NI what the likely result would be if they went ahead with their release date, but as is usual, the people who make such decisions, probably haven’t played a note in their lives, have little understanding of the user base and just make their decisions based on their own hunches etc.

My point is that the NI staff on this forum simply wouldn’t be allowed to admit what you and I know to be true. So I do feel a sorry for them when people keep having a little dig at them for things that are beyond their control, or that they can’t comment on. I understand how frustrated some of us are, but we (well definitely me) would be far more frustrated if it wasn’t for the help the NI staff on these forums have given us.

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133000#Comment_133000

I guess it comes down to ones perspective. I understand the importance of time to market for an initial release so I'm okay with getting my hands on the product as early as I can to start working with it knowing the additional features will be coming at no additional cost in the future. In this case the capabilities of the MK3 are so much further advanced than the MK2 I'll get plenty of use out of it right now. That's how I've approached it in the past with things like the Helix and I've gotten a mountain of additional free expanded capabilities over the last 7 years and my wallet has been very happy.

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133007#Comment_133007

I'm not sure the static release model of anything in the market is the reality nowadays. I bought a new car a few months ago and have already started receiving expanded downloadable capabilities in the driving features such as improvements in the 360 degree lookaround and cruise and follow cruise capabilities.

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133054#Comment_133054

welp.. thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.. but I'd really like to hear what @Matthew_NI has to say on this.

And I'd like to hear something more specific than typical generalities.

Like.. maybe... shifting/commiting development exclusive to the on-device CPU and screen has been a fundamental cause of slow down.

Mark Oxley

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133123#Comment_133123

What you are comparing are as you say "expanded" features to already supplied and working systems. The features missing in the mk3 keyboards are core components for a midi controller keyboard and make it pretty much useless without them. Imagine buying a car only to find you can't drive it because the software prevents it from starting, or it starts but a fault in the software prevents the electronic handbrake from releasing. That would be a more accurate analogy.

Maciej Repetowski

This is not a MIDI controller keyboard in its present form. I would call it “Komplete Kontrol Controller” for now 😜

What a waste of beautiful hardware…

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133130#Comment_133130

That certainly hasn't been my experience with my MK3. I spent most of yesterday getting some studio work done on my S88 keyboard and it worked perfectly. In fact I'd say it was exceptional compared to working with my MK2 unit, but that was mostly because of the piano key action which was extraordinary working with my Alicias Keys and Session Strings Pro2 plugins.

Mark Oxley

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133175#Comment_133175

Are you comparing the s88 MK3 with a s88 MK2? I have a MK2 and demoed a MK3 at my local music store and found it to have a very similar action/feel to my MK2. At least close enough not to make me want to purchase it based on that alone. With the release of recent KK updates the mk3 is now at least usable within KK but still not useable outside of Kontakt or KK. For a lot of users that's important.

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133201#Comment_133201

Yes I tried the S88 MK2, but it's the same keybed as I have on my s49 MK2 and I returned it. The MK3 is a true piano action keybed the only one offered in the MK3 line. I had a Casio Privia which I replaced with the S88 and the keyboard action is quite similar. I even did a bit of recording yesterday using Soundpaint and that all worked well, but without all of the direct mapping of control features of my NI plugins obviously, but still quite usable. I was easily able to map the plugin control surfaces like the mod wheel and other individual controls to the elements in Soundpaint I wanted to adjust on the fly. Everything was very well behaved in my Ableton environment. I really don't know what else I could ask from it...other than it losing my sustain pedal config between sessions. But that's no big deal. I just go to the config, tinker with one parameter and it comes back.

Matthew_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133128#Comment_133128

There are a lot of different questions / points of view in this thread.

I'm happy to answer whatever it is you want to hear more specificity about. Could you clarify?

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