Komplete Kontrol S88 - send MIDI out of USB and 5-pin MIDI

donovick
donovick Member Posts: 20 Member
edited October 22 in Komplete Kontrol

Thank you in advance.

How do I use USB MIDI and 5-pin MIDI to hardware synth simultaneously?

Best Answers

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,929 Expert
    Answer ✓

    When connected to a PC via USB the MIDI DIN socket is now a MIDI oputput from the PC and not direct from the keyboard so you will need to select in whatever software you use that you want to send MIDI out that port:

    image.png

    There is no way to have the same MIDI from both USB and the DIN of hte keyboard, you have to use software on the PC to rout midi out the port.

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,402 mod
    Answer ✓

    @Lerxst indeed - MK2 requires a computer be connected to adjust it's MIDI templates. In that sense, it's brainless, as the brains are still the computer itself.

    With MK3, the brains now live inside the instrument, which will allow us to do a whole lot more. We are a few weeks away from having on-device MIDI templates in beta, and hope to ship some time after that. That will allow you to create, edit, save and load MIDI templates without a computer connected.

    Regarding your other question: right now the MIDI out is available either via DIN or USB, yes. It is possible we could improve the handling in future firmware updates, although simultaneous MIDI over USB and DIN may have timing issues.

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Answers

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,462 Expert

    Isn’t it just working by plugging the cables and putting the keyboard in midi mode?

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,929 Expert
    Answer ✓

    When connected to a PC via USB the MIDI DIN socket is now a MIDI oputput from the PC and not direct from the keyboard so you will need to select in whatever software you use that you want to send MIDI out that port:

    image.png

    There is no way to have the same MIDI from both USB and the DIN of hte keyboard, you have to use software on the PC to rout midi out the port.

  • donovick
    donovick Member Posts: 20 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/81490#Comment_81490

    Not with both USB and 5-pin simultaneously.

  • donovick
    donovick Member Posts: 20 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/81538#Comment_81538

    Thank you JM - this works!

  • donovick
    donovick Member Posts: 20 Member

    It appears USB MIDI is Port 1, and DIN is Port 2.

    My solution - USB MIDI Port 1 out into Pro Tools MIDI track 1.

    MIDI Track 2 - In - MIDI Track 1 / Out to Komplete Kontrol Port 2.

    Now the MIDI data at Port 2 flows out the DIN to hardware synth.

  • Hannes Vester
    Hannes Vester Member Posts: 8 Member

    Hi donovick,

    many thanks, sounds great!!

    Unfortunately, we don't yet get it right yet. As far as we understand you connect the Komplete Kontrol keyboard with the computer using the USB cable. Now: how do you get the MIDI data from the same Komplete Kontrol keyboard to an external MIDI DIN hardware synth simultaneously (a device which has only MIDI DIN IN)? Thats our big problem.

    Another idea requiring the same solution: we want to connect Komplete Kontrol MK3 to our slave computers for nice library selection and lightguide, in parallel we want to send the MIDI data to the main computer for recording. How to do that? Any idea if it could work? All computers are on Windows 11, the keyboards are the new S-series MK3

    Best

    Hannes

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    Can this not be solved with a firmware update?

    I just spent 45 minutes messing with this MOTU MTP thinking my clock sync settings were wrong or the routing wasn't correct only to find out it's the keyboard. Sadly I actually thought to myself "It would definitely be a NI thing to disable the MIDI out port when it's also connected as USB MIDI" so I did a search in this forum and waddaya know.

    Surely if my cheap Arturia Keystep 37 can handle MIDI out via DIN and USB at the same time, the more expensive Kontrol Mk3 should also be able to?

  • R_E_D
    R_E_D Member Posts: 36 Helper
    edited January 30

    Since they never bothered to answer in the many years this question has been asked, we are free to pick the reason why it is not being addressed: ignorance, strategic malevolence or incompetence. The 'bandwidth' argument melted years ago.

    I had to acquire an additional device (Mio4) to fix what they can't and/or won't.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/129207#Comment_129207

    @Jeremy_NI Is this something we can expect in a firmware update for the MK3? I'm not even asking to use both USB MIDI and DIN MIDI at the same time. I have a bunch of outboard Roland gear that takes MIDI input, so my MK3 is connected to a MOTU MTP which allows me to route the MIDI input from my MK3 to any of or all 8 MIDI DIN outputs of the MOTU, into various bits of outboard gear.

    This issue is forcing me to unplug the USB-C cable in the back of my MK3 and plug it into the power only port if I want to use the MIDI DIN connectors. These seems like a bit of a ridiculous work around. If my keyboard was on a stand that wouldn't really be a big deal, but mine is on a tray that's part of a desk so switching USB-C ports isn't a very practical solution.

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 12,402 mod

    @reffahcs I don't think this is something that can be changed, unfortunately. Maybe @Matthew_NI has more insights?

  • Lerxst
    Lerxst Member Posts: 2 Newcomer
    edited January 31
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/129207#Comment_129207

    I have almost the same problem, I want to control my external gear sitting on different MIDI channels without connecting my Mac and fire up Cubase and load a project every single time. Sometimes I just want to flick a switch and start playing.

    But: MIDI over USB is dead in the water without a computer connected .

    And so far it seems like the MK2/3 keyboards are brainless devices where you cannot change MIDI channel locally on them without a computer.

    And if a computer is connected then MIDI over USB overrides the DIN interface rendering my external gear useless.


    And I have gone from USB MIDI to DIN because with too many USB MIDI devices I experienced hiss and noise began to bleed into the audio signal.

    And I know some will say that I use bad or unshielded USB cables, but sometimes the USB circuitry is too close to the audio circuitry in a device like the Roland TR6S and create a tremendous amount of noise, so you're really damned if you cannot use DIN MIDI.


    So problem is: MIDI over DIN is also dead in the water if one cannot change MIDI transmit channels on the MK2/MK3s without a computer connected.

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,402 mod
    Answer ✓

    @Lerxst indeed - MK2 requires a computer be connected to adjust it's MIDI templates. In that sense, it's brainless, as the brains are still the computer itself.

    With MK3, the brains now live inside the instrument, which will allow us to do a whole lot more. We are a few weeks away from having on-device MIDI templates in beta, and hope to ship some time after that. That will allow you to create, edit, save and load MIDI templates without a computer connected.

    Regarding your other question: right now the MIDI out is available either via DIN or USB, yes. It is possible we could improve the handling in future firmware updates, although simultaneous MIDI over USB and DIN may have timing issues.

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 668 Guru

    @Matthew_NI what about being able to switch midi output from USB to MIDI Out (and vice versa) via a setting on a keyboard itself , without the need to physically unplug USB cable?

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,402 mod

    The ability to do this could be added to the firmware layer, but it's quite a bit of work (it touches the architecture). Not that we wouldn't do this, but not until we've completed some of the other bits and pieces we're working on.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/129812#Comment_129812

    For me personally timing sync between MIDI USB and DIN would not be a concern. I think supplying MIDI from both USB/DIN at the same time would fill most everyone's usecases. People concerned about timing probably have some sort of ability to provide a master clock signal. At any rate, I can't imagine it being any worse than normal MIDI timing issues where you have a dozen MIDI devices daisy chained together.

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