M+ computer internals + info

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  • Alexios
    Alexios Member Posts: 93 Advisor

    There should be threaded metal washers to mount the SSD.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    @D-One the exposed small copper circular pads with the white stenciling around them is for test probes. If you look close you can see some of them are marked 3V3 which is 3.3V logic level.

    Usually for testing, there's what's called a bed a nails. so a bunch of spring loaded pins come down and measure all the voltages.


  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,009 Expert

    Concerning stronger CPU wattage.... If they make something with AMD Ryzen... But one would have to update drivers pretty sure, I guess.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,633 Expert

    @reffahcs explained:

    Oh I'm sure there's probably 8 or 12 layers, maybe more?Β 

    πŸ˜±πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’«

    And I thought 4 would be already stretching it! Iβ€˜m so stuck in the 90s! πŸ˜‚

  • Jiglo
    Jiglo Member Posts: 161 Advisor

    Interesting thread. Shame one of you didn't make a video of the disassembly as I spend far too much time watching them in moments of not much else happening.

    Makes me wonder what future geeks will turn these into.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru
    edited January 11

    I did a quick google search and the Raspberry Pi 4 supposedly has 6 layers, according to some posts in the RPi forum.

    I'm not super versed on PCB layout, but I think that smaller boards would require more layers to route all the pins of the main processor. I suppose it depends upon a lot of things though like number of pads, the pitch of the pads on the processor etc... Crazy stuff. I was reading about RF circuit design and at higher frequencies even the surface roughness of the trace can impact a design. It's really wild stuff.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    Picked up this conga-QKIT, carrier board for the Q7 series x86 boards. The kit comes with a bunch of adapters for display, compact-flash, power supply etc... and it was more or less the same price as if I had bought just the carrier board itself new from Mouser. So seemed like a deal to me. I'll post another update when I'm able to power up the M+ board in this dev kit, which should be around the first week of February.



  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,217 mod
    edited January 12

    I did one for the MK3 but the M+ is so similar I didn't think it would be worth recording, my camera motherboard also died and I am not that much into video to pay almost the full price of the full camera gain :(

    Disassembling the computer itself is very similar to normal computers, not very entertaining or unique.

    oooohhhhh exciting!!

  • Apollon
    Apollon Member Posts: 2 Newcomer

    Hey guys really cool thread! I literally googled this months ago and couldn't find anything. I'm glad I came across. A new Maschine wth ARM-based chips would be fire

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,009 Expert

    No!!!!! Fiddling with big.little nightmare on top of the rest.... Does not seem good idea.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,217 mod
    edited January 13

    As a end user I dont care what it's used, i just want the best performance possible at the lowest power consumption and whatever makes development faster, i reckon 99% of the userbase feels the same, only super techy people discuss details. AKAI uses ARM on their MPCs and and they seem to be doing fine but then again sometimes the grass is always greener on the other side.

    With that said seeing the processing power tiny ARM smartphones have nowdays is quite impressive, hard not to be a bit jealous when i see phones/tablets more powerfull than standalones.

    That ship might have sailed due to timing.

    It's hard to know the whys but I reckon the M+ went with x64 instead of ARM because at the time NI's whole catalog of instruments which are desirable on the M+ were also x64, so it would be way easier to port over all the SW, this of course was before Apple forced the world to have ARM/Apple Silicon compatibility. If they go ARM now with a new M+ then they will have yet another platform to support, if they're are already slow that certainly wont help.

    When it's time for a new M+ they will probably consider all this stuff, but if they do switch from intel i think theres a higher chance of going with AMD, depends.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru
    edited January 13

    Absolutely, it's a lot less effort to take existing code and see what runs on a lower-end processor than use a completely new architecture and port code to it. NI runs an x86 shop until Apple came out swinging with the M1. Personally I wish x86 would die, and fast, but that's another thread all together. I would imagine with music it would be more challenging to port because the instruments would have to sound exactly the same.

    On the other hand AKAI has been making standalone devices for a while, they have a lot more experience with embedded hardware. Their hardware is also closer to mid-low end cellphones/tablets, which is pretty powerful for a groove box/drum machine.

    NI is closer to ARM now that a lot of stuff run's native on the Mx processors, but writing software for MacOS on ARM is probably a lot different than writing native ARM code.

    @D-One It'll be interesting to see how ASUS' acquisition of the Intel NUC product line pans out for the Push 3 as well as future embedded devices. I haven't really read to much about it but I'm curious if ASUS will continue the embedded PC form factor or if they will ditch it to focus on small form factor gaming PC's?

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,217 mod
    edited January 13

    @reffahcs said:

    @D-OneΒ It'll be interesting to see how ASUS' acquisition of the Intel NUC product line pans out for the Push 3 as well as future embedded devices. I haven't really read to much about it but I'm curious if ASUS will continue the embedded PC form factor or if they will ditch it to focus on small form factor gaming PC's?

    Hard to tell but probably both? Gaming for the headlines and media coverage like the ROG NUC announcement at CES 2024 just a few days ago, and embedded PC for other industries that need it but with less noise since it's not as "exciting" news for most people.

    I could be wrong but at scale i think embedded is way more profitable since it sells to corporations at large scale, gamers love their full ATX giant PCs with a ton of empty PCIe slots, lol... I cant see tiny gaming pcs gaining popularity anytime soon.

    I'm in the market right now for pc upgrade and looking at mini-ITX prices i want to cry, 350$ for a decent 12/13 gen MB, ouch. I might go Mac Mini and ditch hackintosh.

  • Apollon
    Apollon Member Posts: 2 Newcomer

    I honestly had no idea Akai used ARM but that makes a lot of sense now with how good of a stems separation tool MPC Stems is sounding like its going to be.

    Ironically they have a better processor but use cheap toy like parts. As where NI has a trash processor but has a superior build. NI could really benefit from a top CPU for Maschine + in standalone.

    Apart from MPC Stems, Akai's Modern MPC line is basically a hardware beat pad version of garage band. They cater to a very specific consumer base. One that has grown up using iphones..like if apple were to make a groove production box (minus Akai's horrendous modern aesthetics). Very dumbed-down. Not a professional tool, compared to Maschine. NI was so close to completely dominating this niche market for pro's and hobbyist alike.

    Obviously NI still have a lot more things to integrate before i'd be satisfied. E.g., full DAW integration with Maschine harware, fully mapped, etc. I don't care for a Maschine DAW. I utilize Maschine as a hardware controller inside of Cubase. What they have right now is perfect, its a groove production box, a tool to chop samples and start beats. But they have now taken a major blow from Akai with MPC Stems.

    Historically software has been how NI has been able to compete and be one step ahead, they are supposed to be the innovators. How they've let Akai get ahead is baffling. In order to keep up they will need to first address the long overdue software update and if they are coming out with a new Maschine + MK II they will definitely need the best processor possible.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,009 Expert

    And the best CPU possible (for NI) is not ARM, but AMD's x86. For sure it is not nightmare Intel or rather problematic Apple Silicon, that on top NI cannot use anyway, as Apple does not sell it..... And using another ARM would be rather insane....

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