Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
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Hi VP,
thank you for your suggestion. I will trail S1 to sort that out.
Regards
Andreas
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Bug report: I'm not sure how we've managed to go backwards, but on both the 2.9 update, and 3.02 update, even more plugins don't allow mapping of controls, where previously they did (no update to VSTs)
Here's a random UJAM plugin (same issue on VST2/3):
This happens on the majority of VST2, but also on VST3.
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Been like that for ages in 2.x for VST2 plugins, VST3 was fine but they broke something along the way, I reported it a while back (along with a list of other ignored bugs) and all this along with the current high dissapointment of the latest version is why I just CBF to report issues anymore or even to invest time to help out round here as much as I use to.
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Honestly, the 3.0.2 update destroyed all my recordings. I am extremely frustrated as it has been days without me being able to work properly on my music productions. The KK won't load any of my recorded instruments in daw, despite me having everything in the stand alone application. Furthermore, the stand alone application is extremely hellishly slow!!! Like, waiting ages to use my S88MK2 to load the presets. Seriously, this is ridiculous.
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So you do realize that you can revert back to 2.x and everything will be restored back to the way it was?
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First of all, thank you for the “ignorance”. Much appreciated.
Just a couple of things:
Funny how someone notice things only when they affect him. Probably the “not the old NI” abandoning Absynth, iMaschine, KK MK1 isn’t noticeable to someone not using them. Which doesn’t make things different from what they were before or “this ain’t that!”…just not important to someone. Or maybe ignored by someone.
As maybe someone is ignoring that they don’t need to “start reducing staff”…they already did it. And it’s not something that no one knows: it was more than talked about when it happened. But people tends to forget things rapidly these days.
Anyway…saying that things gonna get “fixed” presumes that they were not done the right way, otherwise they would not need to be “fixed”. TIME (all in capital letters) is something very much needed. I don’t think anyone is unaware of that. The only difference is if this time is used before releasing a product to the customers who pays for it or if you use it afterwards, therefore transforming the time you could use to improve things in time you need to make things work as they should have been working from the moment you ask for money for it. And maybe also be seen as someone constantly working on it (but there’s a difference in working to improve things and working to fix what you didn’t made properly) by people accepting all of this.
But I see that in the “current era” everything is allowed: releasing not finished products and also (and I’m NOT saying this is the case) being a bad worker but being anyway defended by your boss. Or maybe this is just a prerogative of the developers caste, which, as I discovered, tends to raise their shields no matter what (btw: if I were a developer, I would not like other developers not working good, because they are throwing mud at the category, which is composed also by very good and responsible workers).
But I must be out of this “current era”, as must be my boss when he criticizes or corrects me if I do my job poorly. I must remind me to tell him he is wrong not defending me anyway.
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I wanted to report another instance of KK 3.02 breaking FL Studio (21.2 3842) (Windows 11) projects. Today I upgraded all of my Native Instrument software and was surprised to see KK receive a major update.
When I open a project, KK loads but there is no instrument associated with the plugin. I rolled back to 2.9.6 and the projects work again.
I am exclusively using VST3 instruments in FL Studio.
I haven't read all 25 pages of comments, especially since they're getting a bit heated at this point, but I came to post in this thread per the following:
Plugins opened in Komplete Kontrol 3.0.0 don't load
https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/17747/komplete-kontrol-3-0-0
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You probably should have opened the standalone first and allowed it to rescan plugins and rebuild its database, but of course you were not to know. I don’t know why NI are not advising this as standard, the fact is KK3 has a completely separate database to KK2. That’s a good thing in that it protects the KK2 database from being overwritten by the new version, which is exactly why anyone downgrading is immediately able to load their projects again. However it is also leading to people finding themselves in this situation because they are trying to load projects containing the plugin KK without it having a complete database
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Thank you for the feedback, Kymela. I did open the standalone version first and forced a manual scan of the plugins and libraries.
When I open a project in FL Studio, it appears that all of my instruments are present in KK. However, whatever the previously selected instrument in the project in KK is no longer selected so the selection/active instrument is blank.
Perhaps I had my order of operations mixed up and/or my recollection. Are you using FL Studio and were able to resolve the broken projects by using your advice?
I just want to ensure that we have the same environment before I walk through the troubleshooting again.
Audio production is a hobby that I have little time for, so it is always frustrating to run into these types of issues.
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No I’m not using Fl Studio, or on Windows, so I guess there are other variables at work here. I do have earlier projects saved in Logic and Bitwig that do load fine though. If you did open standalone first then we can rule that theory out I suppose in your situation, although I still maintain it is good practice as a general rule for people to update everything in the standalone first.
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Just to be certain, I upgraded to 3.0.2 again. I opened the KK standalone app and manually scanned the library and plugins. I then opened FL Studio. In a new project I loaded KK and manually scanned the library and plugins. I then opened an existing project and each FL Studio channel with KK showed all instruments but the selected instrument was missing - like you just loaded a fresh KK instance.
Interestingly enough, this time and the first time I went through the upgrade I noticed that all of the instruments were already present in KK. KK3 must be importing/referencing the KK2 database during the installation. That is good, I just wish the mapping within FL Studio was working.
Rolling back again, but wanted to share the troubleshooting steps.
Edit: Well that was a mistake. Rolling back and forth apparently broke something. Now my projects are also broken under KK 2.9.6.
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Sorry to hear that, I hope support can help you get it fixed. Ironically although I am not a FL Studio user I did actually buy it this weekend in the Black Friday sale, but am still getting my head around how it works. However I don't have any older projects created with it to test this out (and on Mac may be a factor too).
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I was wrong about at least one assertion. As it turns out, I was using VST2.
FL Studio's plugin manager defaults to "Combine VST and VST3 versions of a plugin". The reason my "rollback" didn't work this last time is that I only installed VST3 with KK2 instead of using the defaults.
When I loaded a project in FL Studio, the VST3 version was loading which did not map correctly. I then reinstalled KK with VST2 included in the installation. The project opened completely.
Horrible default behavior for FL Studio. Upgrading projects is going to be a nightmare.
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Ah so this is possibly more of a VST2 project to VST3 migration issue then? What does it mean 'combine VST2 and 3?'? Not sure if FL supports migration actually
Btw KK3 does actually still support VST2 if you add the paths in plugin manager - it's just no longer the default format for NKS and at some point is likely to be phased out - might be interesting to try that and seeing if doing the database rebuild in standalone after adding the VST2 paths enables you to reopen projects in FL Studio? I'm wondering if that is what is going wrong for at least some of the reporters of missing plugins.
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For me, this seems to be a VST2 issue that was exposed by the upgrade to KK3.
With regards to FL Studio's idiosyncrasies, on Windows it is possible to have 32 and 64 bit versions of both VST2 and VST3 instruments. FL Studio's default settings would scan the default locations for all variations of VSTs. If you had all four (32-bit VST2, 64-bit VST2, 32-bit VST3, 64-bit VST3) instead of displaying each when picking an instrument, it would show only one. In the case of Komplete Kontrol, it combined the VST2 and VST3 64-bit VSTs as a single Komplete Kontrol instrument.
For some, not all, projects over the last two years, the Komplete Kontrol VST it chose was the VST2 version for some reason. When KK3 installed, the VST2 version of KK was removed. FL Studio still recognized Komplete Kontrol as a valid plugin and swapped in the new VST3 instrument. All of the libraries are there, but VST2 presets are not compatible with VST3 which is why no library is selected in the project.
As part of my testing, I made a copy of a project that I now know has VST2 instances of KK2. I changed FL Studio to unbundle the plugins, rescanned the library, cloned the track, set the track to use KK2, verified that the cloned track was now using VST3 version of KK, and manually set the library instrument to match the VST2 version. I then upgraded to KK3. The VST2 tracks were all broken but my new VST3 track in the project worked as intended.
Given the massive complexity of Native Instruments and the libraries within, I don't think a VST2 to VST3 preset conversion tool is on the horizon. I've seen a few hackish attempts elsewhere for single instruments made by other companies years ago, so a possibility of a conversion utility for KK seems extremely unlikely.
Since the writing has been on the wall for VST2s since around 2008, I've marked all of my projects since purchasing "KOMPLETE ULTIMATE Collectors Stupendous WILDCARD Edition" in June of 2021 for review. I'll have to open each one, check it, clone impacted tracks, select the library instrument from the VST2 track, and delete the VST track. Thankfully, I'm a talentless hack who didn't make too many adjustments to most of the instrument defaults. For someone who was really tweaking for a particular sound, this is going to be very painful.
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