S88 MK3 Freezing all the time

Sniper26s
Sniper26s Member Posts: 6 Member
edited October 2023 in Komplete Kontrol

Hello Everyone,

Happy with my new S88, but I have a problem. Using it on my Mac Studio M2, directly connected on thunderbolt 4 port. It freezes 70% of times. I can use it 5 minutes for eg and when I try to change intrument, it freezes. But I can play the instrument. The app kontact 7 on mac is not freezed. It's the S88

At the same time, When I use it in Logic Pro, when I try to select some instruments, or some variations, Logic Close anytime. A lot of trouble I think to start...

Do you have an idea ?

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Comments

  • BMan
    BMan Member Posts: 18 Member
    edited November 2023

    I unfortunately don't have an answer for you, but I'm experiencing the same thing with my S49 MK3 on Ableton Live (v11.3.13). I haven't tried with Logic Pro yet, but I'll give that a try as well.

    I'm also running a Mac Studio M2 Max (12-core CPU, 38-core GPU), with 64GB RAM and 8TB SSD. I'm running macOS Ventura 13.6.1.

    Adding another data point though. I didn't experience any of this with my S49 MK2 Komplete Kontrol 3.0. The only changes for me are (1) the S49 MK3 instead of the MK2 and (2) an update to the latest version of Komplete Kontrol at the time (v3.0.1).

    I did create a support ticket for this though, and will update here when I hear back from NI.

  • xgman1
    xgman1 Member Posts: 26 Member

    Try through a powered usb hub if you have one just to see if the freezing stops. There is an issue with updating firmware via direct connect, so may be related.

  • Tim_NI
    Tim_NI Product Team Posts: 42 mod
    edited November 2023

    Is it definitely the keyboard that is frozen?

    It might be related to CPU spikes in Kontakt (Kontakt will freeze for a while and in doing so freeze the keyboard but the loaded instrument is still playable). The fixes for the CPU spikes in Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol are in beta and will ship very soon.

  • BMan
    BMan Member Posts: 18 Member
    edited November 2023

    Thanks, good info. I had it connected directly to my Mac Studio. I connected it to a powered USB-C hub and ran the firmware updater. It’s still showing the latest firmware being installed (image below).


  • BMan
    BMan Member Posts: 18 Member
    edited November 2023

    I'm not 100%, but I'm very close to sure that it's not CPU spikes. When it happens:

    • The keyboard never recovers (for browsing/plugin usage), but I can still play it (like you mention).
    • I'm still able to interact with Komplete Kontrol (or Kontakt) in my DAW without issue - browse patches, adjust settings, etc. All while the keyboard is still frozen.
    • It happens in a new/blank project, when Ableton Live is the only thing running, when I'm just browsing patches (not trying to load any). The only think happening in Komplete Kontrol is I am getting a preview of the sound.
    • I haven't noticed it happening during any of the CPU spikes. I ran a test without anything running, and monitored the CPUs (pic attached). (Note the large spike near the middle is when I restarted the computer.)

    Definitely open to any additional help/troubleshooting though!

    I also loaded up a larger project in Ableton Live. Noticed something similar. Seemed to freeze not associated with a CPU spike (at least not how I'd classify a spike, but please correct me). In Live, the max CPU utilization matches closely with the graph (~25%), typically sitting around 20-23%.


  • Sniper26s
    Sniper26s Member Posts: 6 Member

    Hello Everyone and thanks for your answers. I have a docking station Lenovo connected on my Mac Studio… And when the keyboard is connected on this station, I have no issues with Kontact 7 as standalone. No freeze on the keyboard also. Buuuuuuuut logic still closing when I try to use “noire” for eg. No soucy with some other instruments.

    It seems that Komplete is not really compatible. With my Sonoma version of MacOS

  • Sniper26s
    Sniper26s Member Posts: 6 Member

    I had the same problem solved with my Lenovo docking station

  • BMan
    BMan Member Posts: 18 Member

    Thanks! I'm going to try this. I don't have a powered USB hub currently, but ordered one and should be here tomorrow. Will update.

  • Tim_NI
    Tim_NI Product Team Posts: 42 mod
    edited November 2023

    @Sniper26s Thank you for the additional information. The crash with Noire is being investigated by the Kontakt team - it is possible that it is a Sonoma issue as we are still qualifying there.

  • BMan
    BMan Member Posts: 18 Member

    Hey @Tim_NI - assuming you're talking to @Sniper26s and his use case. I'm still on Ventura (13.6.1).

  • Tim_NI
    Tim_NI Product Team Posts: 42 mod

    Thanks @BMan - I have edited my post to clarify.

    Let us know how you get on with the powered hub, and in the meantime we will try to reproduce in-house. The graphs rule out CPU spikes - thank you for that.

  • BMan
    BMan Member Posts: 18 Member

    Not a problem! I hooked up the powered hub today, and I've had it running for about an hour. Thus far, everything is stable. I'll keep testing though. If that is the reason, do you have ideas about why? Is it requiring more power than the host-side controller can provide?

  • BMan
    BMan Member Posts: 18 Member

    A day later, and I'm hesitant to say that this has 100% solved the problem, but it does appear to address it most of the time. I can switch projects, have multiple tracks with KK/K7, all without issue. I've opened large projects to try to stress-test it against CPU spikes, and still okay. I did have a crash that happened, but that was overnight when I left Ableton Live open.

    Curious if you all are seeing this a lot with direct connection vs. powered USB hubs. I did test the USB-C port on my Mac Studio, and it appears to be functioning correctly (with the appropriate amount of power being delivered). I hooked up other devices to that same port, and it seems to also work fine.

  • oobe79
    oobe79 Member Posts: 55 Helper

    It sure seems that the beta units sent out to YouTube influencers for reviews are different than the product we got. At least as it pertains to the included USB-C cables and/or the main USB-C port on the S-series MK3 keyboards. Because this was never mentioned in a single review, and yet it has plagued most of us who purchased our keyboards since the launch. @Tim_NI if this turns out to be the case, how is NI going to fix this issue for us?

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 708 Pro

    There is definitely some USB issues with the device. I have a M2 studio as well and have issues with certain USB-C cables. I don't have a powered USB hub to test, but I have had better results with some USB-C cables that others. I've been trying to help narrow down the exact cause but have not had very much luck, I feel for the NI team. I have issues with certain USB cables on my Mac, but they seem to work fine on a PC.

    From all of my efforts, it seems maybe some sort of power related issue. Possibly a brown out... not enough to trigger the keyboard's "not enough power" screen, but enough that certain subsystems within the keyboard seem to stop responding/working while others continue to function. This frequently manifests itself as the display/main control knob not responding, while the MIDI keys continue to function. This makes sense because the MIDI keys are actually controlled by a different microcontroller within the keyboard.

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