Kontakt 5 in MacOS Ventura 13.5/M2

pinesbrook · 2023-10-17T20:04:19+00:00

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I recently upgraded to MacOS Ventura 13.5, and the Apple M2 Max chip. I'm using Pro Tools 2023.x using Rosetta.

I have many sessions from my last setup that were using Kontakt 5 i.e. loaded up with specific instruments and settings for various tracks. I've installed Kontakt 5, 6, and 7 through Native Access without an issue, and I have no issue using Kontakt 7 as of yet. Everything appears installed and authorized. The problem seems to be that Kontakt 5 is no longer supported by my particular setup.

That might be OK and understandable, but in order to continue with those previous sessions, I need to recreate what I'd set up in Kontakt 5 in each session track, manually using Kontakt 7. And that might be OK too. But unfortunately now when I open up Kontakt 5 in the sessions, it now says "DEMO TIMEOUT" and I can't even see what NI instruments I was previously using it (let alone their settings) in order to recreate them in Kontakt 7. I had read somewhere on the internet that the inability to activate Kontakt 5 is a known limitation of my new setup. But again, now, I can't even see what I was using in it. See my screenshot, which has my Kontakt 5 to the left of my Kontakt 7. You can see the TIMEOUT messages in 5, while 7 is fine.

I was going through sessions and manually recreating the Kontakt 5 setups in 7, but now, I can't even do that. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.

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Accepted answers

Kaiwan_NI

Unfortunately there's no other workaround except upgrading to a compatible operating system. 😕

All comments

Vocalpoint

If you start a new blank session and just add K5 to it - does it fire up fully licensed? Or Demo?

Now if K5 is simply not supported any longer (At the OS/software level) - I do not think you will be able to anything on this new rig.

Also just read that the actual message "DEMO TIMEOUT" is an activation issue and not simply a software issue.

Might have to flash back to a setup that can run K5 properly and document your settings that way.

pinesbrook

Please note, I already attempted this solution: support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/10492337780253-GUITAR-RIG-5-KONTAKT-and-SUPER-8-R2-Open-as-Demo-Versions-on-Apple-Silicon-M-Systems?source=search&auth_token=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJhY2NvdW50X2lkIjo3NjI4NDAsInVzZXJfaWQiOjcyOTMyNDA3NzM0MDUsInRpY2tldF9pZCI6MzkxOTE1MiwiY2hhbm5lbF9pZCI6NjMsInR5cGUiOiJTRUFSQ0giLCJleHAiOjE2ODY0MDAxMjZ9.DQXxjscEa8iCsbIAD0pHuxoBGgBYK5jllFM9m4ATjCY

(https:// removed above)

pinesbrook

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/101186#Comment_101186

Thanks Vocalpoint. Unfortunately I have tried a new/blank session and if I add Kontakt-5 to a track, any instruments load in "DEMO" mode there also.

Sorry to repeat, but I wouldn't mind if I simply had to recreate what I'd done but in Kontakt 7, but the way that the "DEMO TIMEOUT" has hit Kontakt 5 at least one session, it doesn't let me see what I'd even had running within it, which is really frustrating, and unnecessary in my opinion. The DEMO TIMEOUT message is accompanied by a button to "Activate", which on click opens up Native Access, but everything is already installed and activated within Native Access, so nothing happens once I get there.

Vocalpoint

This sounds like one for NI support to tackle.

Calagan

Interesting to know.

I am on a M1 pro running Monterey and K5 is running fine. I also have a lot of old sessions with K5 stuff all over the place, so I'm a bit anxious about updating.

How is it possible that NI didn't think about that !?!

I mean, K6 was released in november 2018. It's only 5 years ago. How much people do have sessions pre-2019 that they would like to be able to recall without any headache ?

Why is it not possible to simply use a similar vst ID so a previous K5 can be recalled as K6 or K7 ?

I started computer music in 2013. I've got thousands of Ableton Live sessions with recordings, songs, stage sets and so on... Now in 2023, when I recall 10 years old sessions, I don't have any issues with FabFilter, DMG Audio, U-He or Soundtoys plugins. But the NI plugins are just a complete mess that need the most complicated workflow to translate from version each few years. And sometimes it's not even possible, like with the OP, because of OS incompatibilities.

I love NI sound, but the NI plugins are not professional tools.

Kaiwan_NI

Unfortunately there's no other workaround except upgrading to a compatible operating system. 😕

pinesbrook

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103300#Comment_103300

What operating system would I upgrade to, to get Kontakt 5 to not erroneously in "DEMO" mode?

Vocalpoint

@Calagan

"I mean, K6 was released in November 2018. It's only 5 years ago. How much people do have sessions pre-2019 that they would like to be able to recall without any headache?"

The world moves on (five years is a lifetime in computer years) and the choice falls to all of us is either move forward OR hang back.

You want to recall a 2018 session without a headache? No problem - simply do not update anything whatsoever and you can recall everything as easy as the day it was created five years ago.

It is not on any vendor to ensure everything you ever create is recallable until the end of time. It is also on you to decide if you want to upgrade or not - no one is twisting your arm.

The only surefire way that I know of to preserve everything (as is) is to render to audio and then you can 100% recall any session until the end of time.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103302#Comment_103302

You would have fall back - way back - to get v5 working again. Somewhere around MacOS 10.6 or 10.7

But your hardware would still need to be able to run something that old as well.

I am not that familiar with recent Mac hardware - do not know if it's even possible to take say a 2021 MacBook Pro and then try to roll it all the way back to MacOS 10.7

pinesbrook

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103304#Comment_103304

I agree, that I'd have to roll back. I have no plans to do so, I'm moving onwards, but I was confused by an admin's comment above that the only workaround is "upgrading" when the only workaround is actually indeed downgrading.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103306#Comment_103306

Yes - probably should have just said "install" a compatible operating system.

Calagan

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103303#Comment_103303

Each time I'm complaining about NI and stupid planned obsolescence or compatibility issues, I get this kind of answers. I actually don't get why some NI users don't want NI plugins to be easier to use, and prefer they make their life harder. Maybe they don't use these tools professionnaly, maybe they've got huge free time so they can spend their day managing NI plugins instead of delivering or maybe they are masochists and like the pain, I don't know...

The thing is, it's not about being stuck in the past or having to accept all what the devs do in order to earn more money from us. Especially that most devs I know earn money with their business without screwing their customers (iZotope being an exception maybe). How do you explain I can recall anything from more than 5 years ago without absolutely no pain, from an Intel mid-2012 MBP to an Apple Silicon M1 pro ? Doesn't it mean that the world is not moving the same way for all devs ? What do you think about that ?

The only issues I had when upgrading my laptop were with Sonimus (it took them ages to update their plugins, and finally delivered new versions instead of updating the old ones - it's pretty painful to be obliged to replace each instance when the purpose of these plugins is to be the first processor on EACH track, but settings were usually very basic so it only take some mn for each recall).

And of course Native Instruments...

Native Instruments has a tradition in messing with updates, and Kontakt is among the worst exemple. I started to use it 10 years ago with Kontakt 5. I was obliged to update to Kontakt 6 (without seeing any benefit for me, but I guess the library devs saw the benefit of added features) few years ago, and there's no way to go simply from K5 to K6 but just saving the preset in K5 and opening it in K6, doing it for each track and checking if it sounds the same (sometimes it's not, sometimes it's difficult to know when there's random FX in the preset).

Reaktor is even worst because there's no clear value for the output volume and it's not saved as a preset, so you actually can't replicate R5 in R6 precisely, but at least R6 did bring a lot compared to R5, and it doesn't change version each 3 years (and there's much less bugs than with Kontakt - when I had a sudden noise blast in Kontakt on stage last year, I was a bit angry at NI. Some users experienced that also, and NI doesn't even recognize it as an issue because they can't reproduce).

Finally, the NI plugins have the smaller window of operation I know in the plugin world : they were among the last of the devs I use to update their plugins to be compatible with Ventura (I'm still on Monterey so I don't care), but the first (by a long way) to ditch old OS, like Catalina. Actually, among the plugins I own (and I've got around 400 files in my VST3 folder), I don't know ANY that is not compatible with Catalina. ANY !

Only NI !!!

And I remember that in the past, in few occasions, the only reason I updated my OS was because NI obliged me. Not any other devs from the 400 plugins I own. The drama Queen NI !

So of course, you can use the pretty traditional trope of "don't be stuck in the past", "evolve", "update your apps and machine"... etc. etc. But it's only an ideology that serves other people interests. Why do I need to update to Sonoma ? New emoticons ? I upgraded my machine to an Apple Silicon one and I'm very happy about that, but I don't care about Sonoma. Monterey works great to me, and I will upgrade to Sonoma if it's more stable and more efficient (actually, it may be, according to some feedbacks I can read here and there). But I will not jump on Sonoma 2 weeks after the initial release, like anybody knows...

As a musician and sound engineer, I don't want to spend hours each day to manage my plugins, apps and OS, because I've got other things to do and time is money. Time is actually not only money, it's what makes the difference between pros and not so pros : if I need to spend twice the time to deliver because I'm obliged to manage compatibilities of my NI tools, update my OS and then discover plugin x is not compatible and plugin y is making troubles, next time my client will find someone else for the work.

So in conclusion, jumping on the very last update is actually not professionnal. Obliging users to update all the time is not professionnal. Messing with the versions each 2-3 years is not professionnal. Especially when the new updates are buggy and coded with the feet : is Native Access 3 finally working ? Is Komplete Kontrol ok ? is Kontakt 7 stable ? From what I can read on this forum, it doesn't seem to be the case.

Now, when I recall a session with FabFilter plugins or U-He synths, I NEVER have any issues. No crashes, no strange bugs, no version issues. Even when Fabfilter is releasing an upgraded version, it's super easy to save the preset and use it in the new version : it sounds exactly the same (beecause they managed retro-compatibility) and you can even see the preset folder from old versions. These plugins were updated regularly in the last years, and work on any OS I know, any version of Ableton Live, any laptop I use (Intel or Apple Silicon). Same with DMG Audio, Soundtoys, Tokyo Dawn Labs, AudioThings, Fuse Audio Labs, Klanghelm, Valhalla, Voxengo... etc. etc.

So you could tell me : "if you are not happy with NI plugins, don't use them". The problem is I like NI plugins, and even worst, my old sessions are full of them. They only started to become what they are right now in the last years. So I'm trapped in a toxic relation, because I can't cut the rope like that. I just would like they change their absurd policy... But from what I can see after the Francisco Partner deal, I'm not that opitmistic...

Vocalpoint

@Calaban

"So, in conclusion, jumping on the very last update is actually not professional. Obliging users to update all the time is not professional. Messing with the versions each 2-3 years is not professional. Especially when the new updates are buggy and coded with the feet"

You are going on and on about time, money and being pro etc. We ALL have things to do. No one wants to waste time on anything, and we all are subjected to the same conditions. Plugins aging out. Sessions going stale. Years passing by. Yet most of us seem to "manage" this just fine.

Again - no one is forcing you to update anything - ever. No one is "obliging" you to do anything. No one is telling you to "jump" on anything.

Like many others in here - I used Kontakt 2 and 3 and 4 etc. I have never "lost" a session or got caught in a bind because I took my hands off the wheel or watched 5 years go by without being prepared.

Now - let me be VERY clear - I am not defending NI whatsoever on this - they LOVE to change things and can make it very difficult to upgrade, load old sessions etc - but that is on me to manage. It's me who wants to buy their stuff. It's me who needs to understand that old sessions might need some TLC before I can upgrade (especially when Kontakt is involved) AND it's me down in the weeds if something goes south.

That said - ALL vendors have their problems - some have really big problems like NI and some really small. However I think your comparisons of U-he and Fabfilter are not fair when compared to catalog that NI tries to stay on top of - year after year. (NOT defending them - it's on them to maintain this stuff)

U-he has like 10 plugins total and updates to any occur once in 5 years. Fabfilter (14 plugins) is the same - these vendors cannot even come close to a proper comparison.

"Is Native Access 3 finally working?"

I have never had any issues with Native Access 3.x (except for the very first version) and after that - smooth sailing - 3.7.0 is perfect here.

"Is Komplete Kontrol ok?"

KK3 is a disaster, and I would not go near it until sometime next year. KK2.9.6 is as good as it ever was - for my work - it is about as perfect as I need it to be. I understand others have their beefs with it - but I do not.

"Is Kontakt 7 stable?"

K7 has always been rock solid here while others have had quite the time with it. That said - MOST of the really weird issues (that I see anyway) across a large swath of the NI stuff usually always involves someone using a Mac. That problem is squarely on NI to figure out but Apple never makes anything easy unless it benefits them in some way. I could not imagine using a Mac as a DAW and struggling with this stuff.

I am on Windows 10 22H2 - with Komplete 14 Ultimate, my trusty S61MKII and I use Kontakt 7 daily and update every version with no issues whatsoever - except the ridiculously long startup time when running standalone. These days - I almost always use Kontakt within KK now to take advantage of fast load and the light guide etc.

To close this off - NI has their own agenda. They are here to sell you and I stuff - nothing more. As soon as you get past this - you can decide if their stuff is really for you. But do not expect them to hold your hand or make it easy to upgrade every time - we all know this is not the case.

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