Recalling Presets in Komplete Kontrol when using MIDI

Native_Robert
Native_Robert Member Posts: 13 Member
edited November 2022 in Komplete Kontrol

I'm recording in MIDI using Komplete Kontrol VST and I select a new Preset with my Native Instruments M32.

Why can't Komplete Kontrol remember this and change to the right Preset during playback?

MIDI spec, blah, blah, blah.... But Komplete Kontrol knows I changed the Preset. Why can't it find a way to change to the correct Preset during playback? Otherwise, there is a huge left brain requirement when recording - you have to stop recording and add new tracks whenever you want a different Preset. So you basically need a dedicated track for each Preset.

C'mon. Compared to everything else NI does, it can't be that hard.

I just want to hit "Record" and jam for an hour, trying out all of the beautiful Komplete Presets.

I want "what you hear is what you get."

Is it just me? Am I missing something? Is it really impossible? Is there a magic checkbox somewhere that I haven't found? I hope it's not some klugy workaround...

Comments

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,462 Expert
    edited November 2022

    Well I must be missing something or not explaining the issue well (or daw for that fact).

    if you load a preset, it should play that preset, that’s how it works.

  • Native_Robert
    Native_Robert Member Posts: 13 Member

    Of course KK plays whatever preset I load. Let me try again...

    I'm recording a midi track in Reaper with my M32 as the controller. Komplete Kontrol is the plugin on the track. I'm using (say) the Una Corda instrument inside of KK. I'm using the reakontrol extension for Reaper to make Reaper work with the M32, which works as expected. But...

    While recording a midi track, I push the "Preset down" button on the M32.

    The Preset changes in KK to a new Una Corda Preset, as expected. But...

    When I play back the track, the Preset never updates to match what I recorded. Whatever Preset is currently active plays throughout the whole track.

    I want KK to remember which Preset I was playing and recall any Preset changes I made during the recording.

    The playback should sound *exactly* like what I heard when I was recording.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod
    edited November 2022

    that is not possible that way, you can print or record directly as audio, then you can put the parts together as you want. There are some instruments supporting pc (program change messages) then you also set a signal to switch presets. If reaper has a comping feature i would use this, like i described. Or simply use different tracks and route them through a group track.

  • Native_Robert
    Native_Robert Member Posts: 13 Member
    edited November 2022

    That's exactly what I do - I record a parallel audio track with the midi. But that's not what I want. :)

    Let's say you record a nice piece of audio and you want to expand upon it later. Now, there's no easy way to remember which of your 37,292 presets you used, unless you add a marker and label it in real-time -- which takes you right out of the creative process. It's a huge buzz kill when I have to switch from creative to engineering. I want as little friction as possible when I'm creating music.

    I appreciate your feedback, but it seems that the answers are programming/engineering solutions, not creative solutions. The goal of the program should be to facilitate the creative process. I don't want to futz with routing/marking/naming/saving while I'm in 'the zone.'

    I can't be the only one who would benfit from such a customer-focused improvement. It seems like an obvious workflow and an opportunity for innovation.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,462 Expert

    This sounds more like a lack of understanding in how to work within a DAW and how MIDI/Audio works.

    So of course if you change the preset in the plugin (not just KK but ANY plugin) the original preset you created your tune with is not going to play back now, you have instructed the plugin to change the preset.

    Pressing Play now uses the newly loaded sound... All you did was record things in MIDI. As mentioned, if you want to record things and have it NOT change then you need to render as Audio but this is now not able to be edited as MIDI.

    You as the user need to understand a little about the tools in use and the best way to handle these kinds of cases. For instance, BEFORE changing anything you could save your project then do whatever changes/tests/playing around you like, if you need to go back, just reload the project

    Another way which is what I tend to do often is simply to DUPLICATE the track to a new one, mute the original and then play around with new sounds. You then have the original track you created. This is exactly what a DAW environment is designed for.

    If you take Komplete Kontrol out of this whole equation and load up ANY other plugin, the exact same thing will happen so it's not something specific to KK, it is just in your specific expectations.

  • Native_Robert
    Native_Robert Member Posts: 13 Member
    edited November 2022

    I find your answer a little condescending. I know how midi and my tools work. But anyway...

    You're giving me a complicated way to get the results I want. I can already do that.

    Why can't (Kan't?) Kontakt find a way to write some sort of midi cc that recalls the patch I used while recording?

    ...duplicate, mute, save, render, reopen... sheesh. I don't want to do that. You're exactly describing the problem I want to solve.

    I just want KK to recall the patches I was playing. Figure it out.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,462 Expert
    edited November 2022

    Well did not think that suggesting you save your work was complicated but well, I guess some things seem complicated to some... Fair enough. Still don't think you have a grasp on how things work since what you ask/expect is not how ANY plugin works and the suggestions made for solutions to your issue are how basically EVERYONE does what you are asking. Consider those that want to change a preset and not have it revert? You make it seem like simply saving your work and recalling or just duplicating a track is such a complicated thing to do.

    Think I have invested enough time in this one, will bid you a Good Luck my friend.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod
    edited November 2022

    "I record a parallel audio track with the midi" - no i mean you make,let's say, 4 instrument channels and record there, the midi on the location in time on the channel you want to play/hear at that time. Or don't record midi at all, instead record as audio, is another option. Like i said there are synths and samplers that can do what you want, but then you, of course, can only use sounds of that one synth or sampler. As shown here on the second half of the article: https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209593369-How-to-Switch-Plug-in-Presets-via-MIDI-Program-Change

  • Native_Robert
    Native_Robert Member Posts: 13 Member
    edited November 2022

    Thanks for your reply Uwe303. I think I get your point about the multiple instrument channels. So you set up multiple channels and change to another channel when you want to change patches. That's a reasonable approach.

    The way I do it now is I record in parallel (audio/midi). If I play something I like, I drop a marker and name the patch that I'm using. And it's always nice to have the audio for reference/reuse. That's fairly low overhead, I don't have to think too much about it, and it preserves the midi data and identifies the patch. If I'm using the Preset button on the M32, it's pretty easy to interpolate between Presets that I name. I use a template to easily drop both tracks with a couple of mouse clicks.

    From the link you sent (thank you), it looks like KK has the ability to store some Presets for recall, you just have to know what you want in advance. I'll try that. But I like to randomly select Presets when I'm recording, just to see what pleasant surprises I find.

    Also as you mentioned, some hardware synths can recall Presets via midi. So why can't KK? It should be even easier on a soft synth. That's what I'm looking for and I'm surprised that it doesn't exist. I want KK to write and respond to midi patch changes.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod

    The problem is, the old system has 128 banks with 128 presets each, some only one bank with 128 presets. Names are not saved just the preset bank/patch numbers, they have to be pre defined. Komplete kontrol has thousands of presets and you filter them differently each time. So there you would need a whole new system how plugins communicate with the DAW, this is not trivial, and on top each developer would have its own idea, but banks and preset numbers work. Let's say you select bank 1 sound 1 then bank 1 sound 3, but next time you filter differently, you look for bass sounds instead of guitar sounds. But you said you want to browse spontaneously through all presets.......the idea is good but i think the effort to program this is not worth it for developers. Not many would use it maybe. And there are workarounds already there. But a system with tags or numbers, where let's say every vendor gets a code, every instrument of the vendor gets a code, every preset of every instrument/FX gets a code, then you could have a unique id for every preset. And it has to be transferable both ways, so all DAWs also would need that system, receive it when I change a preset, or send it when I want to recall one. I know my grammar is bad.... it's mid night in germany

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod

    Ohh and you also want to save user presets but every preset would need a unique id, so then you need a central server where those IDs are made and saved, to prevent doubles .......short....forget it

  • Native_Robert
    Native_Robert Member Posts: 13 Member

    Yes, midi has been a tremendously successful spec, but there are definitely limitations that you point out. The file name could probably be encoded to create the midi cc info (of course, there could be duplicates), and KK has control over reading/writing the info, but alas, not a simple change. Anyway, your grammar was great and I appreciate your feedback! Get some sleep :)

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod

    Reaper has also an own system of saving presets and you can go through them with midi PC messages, but then you probably would have to save them first as reaper snapshots. This could at least help you to remember the presets and don't have to write them down.

Back To Top