Every year the same game. It's just annoying...

Yes i have

If it weren't so sad, you could laugh about it: Apple releases a new operating system after numerous beta versions were previously in circulation. 

Many developers already had new - and compatible - versions of their software on the day of the release. For Native Instruments, however, macOS Ventura apparently came as a surprise and apparently the software is so "specialized" that it is too much to expect it to run or updates to quickly restore compatibility.

Every year the same game. And every year you wonder if learning resistance or just plain ignorance is the reason. But that's not the only problem...

For example, a clean uninstallation of plugins with Native Access is still not possible under macOS. Why ever. Maybe Native Instruments assumes that once installed plugins will be kept forever. 

Still some Instruments do not offer a reasonable preset management or really practical sounds such as Massive-X.

Still no one at Native Instruments cares about simplifying the migration from legacy plugins to new plugins - plugins are simply renamed and old presets are simply "forgotten". It is not even comprehensible why a version number has to be poured into a plugin name when the instrument has actually primarily undergone a facelift... But the main thing is that the users have a hard time.

I am so annoyed by this that I have decided - after many years of paying for updates and upgrades - not to pay a single cent to Native Instruments anymore. Anyway, the real value has always been small - even if the quantity of plugins and the size of installations has increased steadily. Because all that is of no use if you can't open old projects anymore, have to dig up old presets somewhere and have to replace Battery 3 with Battery 4, for example, which is time-consuming. Design-fails and decisions of the product management, which the customer pays with time and broken projects.

But: I still have a reasonably current Komplete and I would like to have compatibility with macOS Ventura again. That shouldn't be so hard, if the development was halfway reasonable. 

Therefore my request: See to it that the compatibility is restored promptly. I would also be grateful for a Native Access update that includes an "uninstall" option.

Thanks!

Nico_NI

MacOS Ventura is around for just a week now. Maschine and Komplete Kontrol are already compatible.

I would not expect any tech company to have their products compatible as soon as the new OS is out there. There's usually a few months of testing in between. That's why we recommend to not upgrade to the latest OS too soon.

JesterMgee

If you are that annoyed, maybe consider Windows where all of this is a non-issue and software you purchase today will still work in 2050... Seriously this is all isolated to macOS and something every user should be aware of, this is not an NI problem.

As someone who uses both Win and Mac I can tell you that mac users need to be Waaaayyy more attentive and patient because things can break with any update and in some cases, some things will never work again.

Developers cannot simply release compatibility based on Betas, they can pre-test things and prepare (most do this) but Apple can make changes right up to release that can cause any work you start doing to have top be redone... Sure some small companies with simple software updates can make things work but many companies out there can take weeks/months also depending on what software, hardware, drivers and integrations all need to be tested and updated.

Also not to forget that companies have other things to look after than constantly having to re-patch the same stuff every time a new OS update, Logic update or anything else gets changed. I like to imagine macOS is like a house of cards. Looks impressive (when it's working it runs well) but it's prone to just completely falling over if you are not careful.

So rant away if you feel better but the fact is the onus is on the user to be prepared and do their homework. No seriously professional user will ever update to a new macOS version and expect things to just work. Hell many pro companies I know are still several OS versions behind because things are stable and they know how things work.

Larissa

I think your statement is well taken @JesterMgee and reminds me of my own case. I'm not that familiar with the plugin area yet, since I've used Logic's internal plugins so far. Unfortunately, when I bought Electric Sunburst Deluxe, I realized too late that an included program called "Contact" is not compatible with my MacOS system Ventura. I thought that if a piece of software is compatible with the operating system, then the programs in it are also compatible. Wrong thought. Through your valuable comments, the light first dawned on me, so I was able to learn the following: never change an operating system before all plugins are running on it.. 😁 ... at least not without an older operating system up your sleeve that you can fall back on if necessary ...

Also Native Access seems to cause problems with Ventura or am I wrong? The serial number is not accepted. My request to support is patiently waiting for an answer. I really hope to be able to use the long-awaited plugin soon. Unfortunately, a downgrade to a compatible Mac version is probably not possible without a backup. Is it possible that maybe it will never work? What are the experiences? What do I do in that case? I'm very sad that it doesn't work, but I don't blame NI, I should have found out more beforehand and not only when the purchase was made or the accident had already happened.

Yes i have

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/38373#Comment_38373

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Of course, operating system manufacturers cut off old braids from time to time. Some sooner, some later. Software manufacturers know this and it is simply presumptuous - and also a bit impertinent - to want to blame the operating system manufacturer for inadequate product maintenance and poor product design.

The problems described above partly concern macOS. Correct. For example, that FM8 is still not compatible, although IMHO enough time has passed from the pre-announcement to the release and the first patches.

But other problems do concern Windows - for example the rather unwise design decision to use version numbers as part of the plugin identifiers. 

Quite apart from that, the question is what Native Instrument's self-image is and with what esteem the company treats paying customers. Unfortunately - this is my conclusion after well over 10 years as a Native Instruments customer - it started bad and got worse. 

In the meantime, I keep my distance from the products and only use them on an unpatched Windows 10 computer to open legacy projects. A necessity that I have not had to experience with products from other manufacturers SO far. Fortunately, I must say.

For the future, this means that Native Instruments has lost a paying customer (the company will certainly cope with that) and an opponent who will advise everyone against buying such poorly maintained products in the future (that hurts more). Because indeed, it doesn't help me if the ninety-twelfth sample blender is integrated into Kontakt just so that the number of included products of a Komplete license can be driven further into absurd heights. It just doesn't make sense anymore to invest in this questionably maintained, bloated plugin collection. It's just not worth the hassle.

JesterMgee

Fair enough man, guess I’m just spoiled in the fact I never have these issues to slow me down, no OS is perfect but glad I never have to concern myself in This way or to such a depth.

Kubrak

@Yes i have

It is Apple's faulty policy, that it does not maintain backward compatibility of their OS. Ask Apple to do their job and not to break things down every while.... It would cut down the number of problems of Apple users to minimum. ;-)

And developers might focus on improving their products instead of perpetual patching SW for Apple users.

leboisjoli

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/43546#Comment_43546

The main problem that makes opening old projects fail, is the version number into the plugin's names.

Kontakt 7 of course should have the ability to read and open an Kontakt 4 instrument, but as the DAW is looking for this specific Kontakt version (that does not exist anymore), you won't have any luck opening your old projects.

I can't understand that at all. It's a pain in the ass to retrieve with exact instrument you used (like a cage name like "Strings") on numerous sound banks.

so, many of my old projects are lost because of the Native instruments policy.

Other plugins (Vienna, Soundtoys, BX, Keyscape, etc…) will never have this issue because they keep their plugin name without adding the version to it.

Kontakt seems to go the right way now that they have abandoned the versions, but any project saved with the incrementation inside Kontakt 5, Kontakt 4, Kontakt 3 (yes I go way back in time) are lost forever…

Kubrak

Kontakt seems to go the right way now that they have abandoned the versions, but any project saved with the incrementation inside Kontakt 5, Kontakt 4, Kontakt 3 (yes I go way back in time) are lost forever…

It is fault of Apple that they do not maintain backward compatibility. If you were on Win it would not be any problem to load Kontakt 5 projects (I have Kontakt 5 on my Win10). And most probably also Kontakt 3 and Kontakt 4. Maybe one would have to use Win 7, bui it might even work on Win 10/11.

And when project with older Kontakt loads, Maschine asks if it should be updated to current version of Kontakt....