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Komplete Kontrol has no drum/trigger pads bc Maschine Mikro has them?

Kev SF
Kev SF Member Posts: 13 Sine
edited September 17 in Maschine

I'm trying to figure out why the Komplete Kontrol keyboard does not have drum pads. And I'm thinking that its because you're meant to use Maschine Mikro for drum pads.

Or is using MM as a drum pad overkill because it has so much other functionality?

Or is there another drum pad/trigger pad that is meant to complement KK?

(Still trying to figure out my midi controller set up)

Thanks for your time,

Kevin

Comments

  • Nico_NI
    Nico_NI BerlinAdministrator Posts: 989 admin

    Komplete Kontrol and Maschine working together is definitely the ideal combination. Although, other drum pads can be used with KK 👍

  • Kev SF
    Kev SF Member Posts: 13 Sine

    Hello Nico_NI,

    I'm presently using Universal Audio's LUNA daw.

    I'm wondering how to assign particular drum sounds to Maschine in Midi Mode using LUNA. Do you use Maschine's software to do that?

    Also, if you select a drum set using a Komplete Kontrol s61, will Maschine be able to control it in Midi Mode?

    Thanks

    Kevin

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 858 mod
    edited September 20

    @Kev SF asked:

    I'm wondering how to assign particular drum sounds to Maschine in Midi Mode using LUNA. Do you use Maschine's software to do that?

    The specific DAW doesn't really matter. Where are the drum sounds loaded? In KK? If so, what instrument? Or do you want them loaded in Maschine-Plugin?

    KK can also load individual one-shot samples but having a ton of different KK's is not very efficient and might complicate things if you're trying to trigger them all from one MIDI Controller.

    Also, if you select a drum set using a Komplete Kontrol s61, will Maschine be able to control it in Midi Mode?

    What instrument does that drum set belong to? It can be from Battery, Abbey Road Drums, or many others, but generally, any drum instrument can be triggered with MIDI, the Maschine Mikro has a MIDI Mode so it should work fine.

    You might have to use Controller Editor to create a template where the Pads of the MAS-Mikro send the MIDI Notes that the instrument expects, this changes depending on the plug.

  • Kev SF
    Kev SF Member Posts: 13 Sine
    edited September 20

    I purchased Komplete 13. So for the sake of discussion, let's say Abbey Road 50s is the drumset.

    I'm trying to work simply. I just need the ability to use a Maschine Mini Mk3 (in midi mode) to play the Abbey Road 50s drums. And to be able to quickly move/assign a particular drum to one of the pads or another, depending on what feels most natural for me to play. What software plug does that? Kontakt or Maschine? Or both?

    Since the Maschine Mini Mk3 doesn't have the screens for selecting instruments that KK s61 has, it would seem to be easier to use KK s61 to select Abbey Road 50s (or any other) drum kit. And then to use MM to play it.

    I do wonder if whatever assignment you make in terms of setting up drums to particular pads on MM can be saved for later use?

    Thanks for your help, btw.

    Kevin

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 858 mod
    edited September 21

    @Kev SF said:

    Abbey Road 50s drums. And to be able to quickly move/assign a particular drum to one of the pads or another, depending on what feels most natural for me to play. What software plug does that? Kontakt or Maschine? Or both?

    They all do that but If you're looking for simplicity then forget Maschine-SW, use KK or Kontakt. Just load the instrument via KK, make sure the DAW track can receive MIDI from the Mikro, and proceed to customize what notes trigger what, more on that below.


    I do wonder if whatever assignment you make in terms of setting up drums to particular pads on MM can be saved for later use?

    Yes, settings can be saved for later.

    You have 2 options, either you create a custom MIDI mapping inside the Abbey Road instrument so it matches the notes that the MAS-Mikro sends by default, then save that as it's own MIDI Mapping preset to load later, here:


    Or you do it the other way around and create a Maschine MIDI Mode template that matches the default Abbey Road notes in Controller Editor:

    **Note that Abbey Road drums have a lot more than 16 sounds since it's goal is realism, so you might want to set up more than one Page. You can change Pages in the mikro by holding the Group button and pressing Pads 9-16

  • Kev SF
    Kev SF Member Posts: 13 Sine

    Thank you so much D-One, That was a very informative post. Thank you for taking the time to do it.

    I'm assuming when you change the mapping inside the Abbey Road Instrument, it changes it both on Maschine and on the Keyboard. I'm also assuming that a change in mapping is actually a swap in mapping. So the drum sound you replace goes into the slot the new sound vacated? Or does it become a repeat?

    It would seem, in the first image, that you can call up a particular drum by pressing it on the keyboard. And then switch that drum's midi mapping manually. I suppose you can't just play a note, hold it down, and press the pad on Maschine you would like it assigned to and have that cause the re-assignment. ;)

    It looks like there are 80+ sounds to the Abbey Road drummer sets. Wow, that's a lot. I suppose there are several kicks, several snares, etc. And you kind of build the set you like from what you have. And each has individual samples for each velocity for each percussion instrument?

    Again, thank you very much for your time and effort on that last post,

    Kevin

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 858 mod

    No prob.

    I'm assuming when you change the mapping inside the Abbey Road Instrument, it changes it both on Maschine and on the Keyboard. I'm also assuming that a change in mapping is actually a swap in mapping. So the drum sound you replace goes into the slot the new sound vacated? Or does it become a repeat?

    It would seem, in the first image, that you can call up a particular drum by pressing it on the keyboard. And then switch that drum's midi mapping manually. I suppose you can't just play a note, hold it down, and press the pad on Maschine you would like it assigned to and have that cause the re-assignment. ;)

    Yes, it changes it for everything, since it changes what note triggers what sounds. Not sure if it repeats or overlaps with others depending on what you do, or details on how you can map, I'm not at home rn to test but it should be easy.

    It looks like there are 80+ sounds to the Abbey Road drummer sets. Wow, that's a lot. I suppose there are several kicks, several snares, etc. And you kind of build the set you like from what you have. And each has individual samples for each velocity for each percussion instrument?

    Yes, theres things like snare flams, rolls, muted hits, tons of stuff really... each with tons of layers and all recorded with multi mics, like a real drumset is. If you're not looking for realism then Battery makes more sense, for a more Beat style of production.

  • ShelLuser
    ShelLuser NetherlandsMember Posts: 177 Saw

    @Kev SF

    I'm trying to work simply. I just need the ability to use a Maschine Mini Mk3 (in midi mode) to play the Abbey Road 50s drums.

    Why not use the Maschine software? It was made for this:

    I looked up the LUNA DAW and it supports plugins, so... why would you want to create more issues for yourself when you can just use the Maschine software and be done with it?

    Maybe it needs getting used to, fair enough, but Maschine can easily be used within most DAW's. It definitely provides plenty of useful routing options.

  • Kev SF
    Kev SF Member Posts: 13 Sine

    Thanks ShelLusar,

    I'm wondering, with the Maschine software, if there is a way to drag and drop particular drums into particular pad assignments? (To make quick work of set up.)

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 858 mod
    edited September 23

    No, there's no drag-and-drop quick setup.

    That adds quite a bit of complexity because you're using a sequencer inside another sequencer, you have to tell MAS how to interact with the instrument and DAW and then tell the DAW how to interact with Maschine via MIDI and Audio routing... So you generally have to learn a bit of Maschine and Kontakt and routing is prob the #1 topic that gets users very confused. For someone like @ShelLuser it's easy because he is experienced.

    The simple way to use complex drum instruments like that on Maschine-SW is using keyboard mode but then you still have to map things inside the instrument so you can have each drum piece in the Pad you want... and you lose the ability to add fx/plugins to each drum piece since it will all output thru a single stereo channel. You can get around this by editing the kontakt instrument and creating multi audio outs, routing them thru MAS pads, and then routing those Pads to Luna audio tracks... and of course, also route MIDI.

  • ShelLuser
    ShelLuser NetherlandsMember Posts: 177 Saw

    That heavily depends on what drums you want to work with.. Generally speaking, no, just like @D-One said above me. However, you can drag and drop kits onto Maschine after which you can then play those using a Maschine group:

    Here I loaded Maschine and selected Abbey Roads 50 as my instrument. As you can see I also loaded Kontakt, but that's merely for reference purposes (and for me to verify a few things). As you can see the official presets are kits which you can load into Kontakt, and that's basically the same thing that's happening here: I can select a preset in Maschine after which it gets loaded onto a sound ("pad").

    As D-One also mentioned above: if I then change Maschine into instrument mode I can play all the instruments in the kit but I don't get to pick which pad plays what. At best I can play up to 8 sounds and if I then change the current octave up/down I get to play the next "set". Changing the semitone "shifts" this up and down by one pad, but in the end you play the whole thing as-is.

    Hope this could clear things up a bit.

  • Kev SF
    Kev SF Member Posts: 13 Sine
    edited September 23

    Thanks to both of you.

    Fyi, I'm a songwriter/producer, not a beat-maker or live performer.

    So I won't be using the internal effects of Maschine to send drums + effects to live speakers or into my interface/daw. Rather, I'd be laying down midi drum tracks in my daw using Maschine's drum pads and having that midi track accessing the Komplete 13 Abbey Road 50s samples (via the Kontakt or Maschine instruments/apps. And then adding effects afterward. I'd probably be using several midi tracks to track the drums. And then sending them into the same effects bus.)

    So the questions I have are very basic:

    1. Is it the case that whatever instrument is brought up in Kontakt must be played through Komplete Kontakt or a keyboard controller. And whatever instrument is brought up in Maschine must be played via Maschine?
    2. Or will bringing up an instrument in Kontakt immediately also allow me to bang on the Maschine drumpads in Midi mode and also get midi Information into the daw. But only as the sounds are originally dedicated in the instrument.
    3. Regardless of which method works, my understanding is I will still need to use the Maschine plugin to change pad assignment of the instrument using the controller editor.
    4. Although it would seem to me that, if just bringing up the instrument allows either midi controller to send midi data to the daw using that instrument, changing the keyboard-notated note assignments of the instrument via Kontakt (inside the daw) would also change the note assignments on Maschine.

    Thanks for all your help and patience,

    Kevin

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