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Maschine as plug-in stuck in "focus" mode

S Righteous

I have Maschine as a plug-in in Logic. I have used the 16 channel version, and created 16 tracks, so I can route midi to each group in the plug-in individually.

Each group is set to midi-mode = Drumkit, because each sound is a sample. I'm not using a synth per sound slot or anything like that (yet).

Each sound in a group is set to Midi Source = Host, and Midi Channel is the same for all sounds in a group, but each group uses a different midi channel for it's sounds.

So far so good, and with the M+ hardware there is an additional setting to take the FOCUS mode off.

Initially this seemed to work. I selected a midi track in Logic, tried some notes, when the midi channel of the track matched the group in Maschine, it played. But I was selecting the group in the plug-in to see it, and so it was in FOCUS.

The problem is that I only hear the sounds from that group if I've selected it in the plug-in. If it's in FOCUS - I have not found a global preference that prevents the plug-in from operating in this FOCUS mode?

I'm missing something that I used to know, but I'm fairly sure the preferences in the plug-in are more streamlined and I don't see the option I need. I do have this option in the M+ Hardware.

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S Righteous

There are so many articles and videos online where people are using multiple midi tracks in Logic to go to a single group, so each sound gets it's own midi track and midi channel. I have not found one that shows you how to have each GROUP get it's own midi channel. I swear years ago I used to do this with Maschine 2.

I mean the set up works, except only one group in Maschine ever plays back, the one in focus. I'm wondering if this is a Logic thing?

S Righteous

I figured this out - the implementation is Sooooo terrible. I think adding a simple preference would fix this mess. I'm going to add the solution so I will find it next year when I go to use Maschine again. . .

With the Maschine+ hardware, from my memory, it's easy. Set each group to it's own channel, and use Drum mode for each group. In this mode each sound gets a single unique midi note. Then turn off the focus option in midi settings, so you can hear all the groups as they receive midi on those channels.

In my mind Drum Kit Mode = one note per sound, what you would use if you have drum sounds.
Manual Mode = you have loaded a synth into a sound slot, and want to have different notes all go to that same sound slot, so each sound needs it's own midi channel.

With the software running as a plug-in. I am using single sound samples, so I should use Drum Kid Mode. But the software does not let you turn off FOCUS, and having separate midi channels per Group, doesn't matter because the only group that will receive midi is the one in focus.

The workaround is to use Manual Mode for all groups, even the ones that you would think should use Drum Kit mode. This allows all groups to receive midi, even if they are not in FOCUS. This is exactly where a preference setting should exist to remove that stupid FOCUS mode.

OK, so now all groups receive midi data even when not in focus, but the first thing you will notice is that any given midi note, will trigger ALL sounds in a kit, and of course it sounds wrong. You have to go to each sound in the kit, go to the sample (waveform) edit screen, and where you select the ZONE, lock down each sound to one unique MIDI note, as the ROOT NOTE, and also lock down that the HI and LOW are set to that same ROOT NOTE, so that higher or lower notes do not trigger that sound. Repeat this for every sound in every kit.

Really NI ? Just allow users to leave all groups set to KIT MODE, where that mode makes sense, and then provide a setting that allows them to recieve midi data in when not in focus. Focus should have nothing to do with multi-timbrality. Changing all sounds to a new mode just to allow multi-timbral use, is terrible.

S Righteous

Note: there is a selection option for "Sounds To Midi Channels", or "Sounds To Midi Notes", but this only affects the Midi files that you export from Maschine into your DAW by dragging and dropping. From what I can tell. It doesn't force a Drum Kit mode. But possibly if this is set incorrectly to your Groups, it will export something unusable.

ALDREAD

The plug in has always been a pain for more than one group , I think because the plugin is not fully multi timbral, like kinda omni , it receives midi on one channel then forwards it to the other channels

Example, if you press record in maschine it will automatically go to group A

Logic had its issues with au plugins passing midi , but they added a ext midi port recently for that purpose, I was testing it with logic and maschine here , it actually pinned at the top of the forum , but on page 2

I haven’t really looked into anymore , as I still think maschine vst need changing

I was thinking about just hooking up the plus with midi cables and using it in a daw like that , no vst

The next model should have midi/ audio over usb so you can just trk out everything over usb, I think the Mpc just got that

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/43640/logic-users-you-can-now-record-midi-from-maschine-without-midi-mode

S Righteous

I started the process of taking a drum kit, and moving each sound to a new root note, and locking the high and low range so only one note will trigger that sound. Strangely some sounds can be triggered in the software to audition them, others cannot be auditioned. Don't know why.

Also, I have kits where one pad triggers two sounds - holy hell that broke entirely, and I can't seem to get it to work properly with both sounds having the proper pitch. I think I need to un-link all linked samples, and set them to the same root note, so that they are triggered by the same "note" externally. This is going to be hell to recreate these kits.

Kit Mode works at the group level, without breaking pad links, or requiring you to deeply re-edit every sound in a kit. They just need to have it so that you can turn off FOCUS, and have each group responds to it's own midi channel. Every other multi-timbral instrument can do this with one setting. I have no idea who created this architecture, but it should be re-assessed.

Migrating a software kit to the hardware, and having it work as expected, will probably be impossible after all the editing you need to do for this work around.

I know that adding a synth at the sound level would mean a workaround, but honestly I would guess most people put one synth per Group, not per sound, it's just easier to manage. Make a janky work around for that.

ALDREAD

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/262393#Comment_262393

I add multiple samples to one pad (loop slices) by highlighting them all in finder then dragging to c1 normally ( for midi file ) each slice gets added to a key chromatically

I don’t have to mess about

Some tips

grab the top left edge of the highlighted samples , then you can just about see the key where the first sample will be placed

Also I have a blank group , where I’ve added a sample to sound , so I can see the zone / edit , then delete that sample , save the group , the I can drag multiple samples to it , save with samples , rename , then reload the blank group and start again

I’ve been doing a lot of loops from recycle

Obviously tho there are benefits of having 16 samples in a group for a kit

S Righteous

Interesting. So you add more than one sample to a pad, and never need to adjust sample playback settings, or filters/FX for those individually. I mostly do need one sound per pad, but in a few cases, I think this method would work for me.

S Righteous

This video is puzzling, given what I've tested the past few days.

https://youtu.be/xBep3HpSNfM?si=oLa0Lf_dM70TWGTc&t=444

In this tutorial, using V2 of the software (and protools), he sets the input mode to Manual for a bunch of drum kits, and then has no issues with playback. He starts the set up at 7:24 and then tests playback at 12:58.

When I set a kit to Manual mode, every note from Logic will trigger all 16 sounds if they are set to the same midi channel. He didn't set unique midi channels per note. He set unique midi channels per group, which makes sense.

I thought manual mode was for the Groups that have a synth at the sound level, so all your notes play chromatically. He has both kits and synths in different groups triggered by their own Midi tracks, by just setting each to it's own midi channel.

Is my issue a Logic issue?

ALDREAD

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/262399#Comment_262399

I think what he did , was set the ‘sounds 2 midi note / sounds 2 midi channels thing in the group menu before hand

I’ve only ever tried logic , and the problem was to do with au plugins not outputting midi , you could get one group to work , but even then you had to switch the controller to midi mode to input midi into logic , I think logic 9 was better because of the midi studio thing in logic , i think that’s still there under the hood , but im not sure how it works

Like I said logic has slightly improved with the introduction of the virtual midi port , i could send midi from the controller and maschine into a logic track , but i could still only use one group , if i add another group and tried to send midi on another channel from that , the virtual midi port would disappear or something.

I think what we need is an au3 plugin version

So yeah I’d say it’s logic/au plugin/maschine issue , which I why I never really got into using logic

I sold my copy of cubase to buy a maschine studio , then I brought logic because it was cheap , but because of the midi issue , I’ve never really used it , ended up using maschine standalone, and didn’t look back tbh , occasionally I see what improvements they added to logic , but I’m seriously considering deleting from hdd

In All the other daws you can use the vst plugin which does support midi

ALDREAD

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/262398#Comment_262398

yeah pretty much just drag and save , no messing with root note or anything

if I want to change things like fx , of envelopes or what not per sample or mix kick and snare , hats , I duplicate , to another sound slot , delete the relevant midi info

S Righteous

"I think what he did , was set the ‘sounds 2 midi note / sounds 2 midi channels thing in the group menu before hand"

Yes, but that setting is just for the drag Midi to export feature. I also set that up, and did not get the results he got with Logic. He also changed the preference which is set to Groups using Focus, and changed it to none. I also did that, but did not have the results he had. I think that preference is at the root of it all, and is broken with Logic.

If I have a kit set to Kit Mode (not manual) I don't have to adjust anything for a midi track in Logic to properly trigger those sounds. The only downside is that - I can only ever play back the Group that is selected in Maschine, not two groups simultaneously.

This is a focus issue, not a midi mapping issue.

I wish I had a copy of pro-tools to test this with. Or even Ableton.

ALDREAD

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/262405#Comment_262405

yeah you’re right , I remember now

Not sure if any of the free daws work , anything that uses vst should tho ,I don’t know whats free atm

S Righteous

I would love to hear if someone has gotten this to work in Logic without reconfiguring their kits.
Also would love to know if the video tutorial is exactly that easy for Pro Tools, and Logic is the issue.

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