Using Multis in a template in Reaper

BillK@FalconHeights
BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member
edited January 2022 in Kontakt

I'm setting up a 10 track template in Reaper. Each track is comprised of instruments from Spitfire's Albion One. Each of the tracks (downloaded from a class I'm taking) that make up the template is either a single instruments (.nki) or a multi (.nkm).

I start with a 16 track Kontakt template - I'm trying to do this with a single instance of Kontakt (which maybe is my problem?). I drag the .nkm's into Kontakt (all the individual instruments set up within one nkm - usually from 2 to 7 instruments - are already pre numbered for one of the track numbers, 1-10).

Typically, when I'd populate Kontakt with a lot of single instruments, they would all fall under the heading of "New (Default)" in the Multi Rack. However, when I bring in these new multi's, a new category will be formed for each in the Multi Rack.

The problem is, when I attempt to play a track in my Reaper template, I get no sound unless I open the Kontakt window, go up to the Rack and scroll through all the newly created Multis to have it visible.

Am I correct in assuming that is how it's supposed to work (kind of a pain when using a template), ie: there is no way to have all my tracks instantaneously available (ready to arm and play) without first scrolling through the Multi Racks in Kontakt (I still need to change the track assignment on my keyboard controller). It would be nice to have all the instruments from all the tracks fall under a single "Rack category", each of the many instruments that make up each of the 10 tracks would still be assigned to the appropriate track number, but I don't know if that's possible.

If so, I'm guessing the solution is to have multiple instances of Kontakt running? - One for each track.

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Best Answer

  • BillK@FalconHeights
    BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member
    Answer ✓

    Thanks ED. I just figured out the solution (and maybe this is what Uwe was trying to tell me). Once I have all the instruments from all the tracks dropped into Kontakt, with all MIDI Ch assignments as I want them, I have to save the entire thing as a new multi (with a new name). This combines all the individual multis into one.

    Thank's all, and sorry for being so dense.

«1

Answers

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod

    Hello,

    normally they should work right after loading, and setting all midi and audio routing up correctly.

    Uwe

  • BillK@FalconHeights
    BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member
    edited January 2022

    Nope.....and my Kontakt template is set up correctly (been using it for quite a while, just never with Multis).

    It "looks" like it should be sounding (by the signal indicator in the Reaper track), just nothing until I click to the appropriate "Rack Multi" in the Kontakt window. Any suggestions for settings?

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod

    Hello,

    i can only try to replicate with cubase if I'm later at my computer, and see what's going on.

    Uwe

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod

    Hello,

    i tried with cubase and reaper and it works absolutely perfect. have you tried to open the multi and re save it with your kontakt version, then open again in another project.

    Uwe

  • BillK@FalconHeights
    BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member

    I'll give it shot. Thanks for trying.

  • Murat Kayi
    Murat Kayi Member Posts: 428 Pro

    Hi,

    I am merely interested in following this approach out of interest and was a bit puzzled, because what you mention at the end of your post would have been my approach. Namely, one Kontakt instance per track. How do you mean you put them all in one Kontakt instance? Is Kontakt running in standalone, here? Or is it running as a plugin in one track and you send midi to that track from each of the other tracks? Is the overhead of each Kontakt instance so big that this is worth the hassle?

    I am asking, because I am interested in the workflow for building orchestral templates.

  • BillK@FalconHeights
    BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member

    Marat, not that I'm very knowledgeable about this stuff, but You can have a lot of instruments in one instance of Kontakt. Apparently doing it one way is easier on RAM, doing it the other way is easier on CPU. I had wanted to do the one instance as I have Templates for Reaper that use just one instance, and all the routing is taken care of. I'm working in Reaper, not stand alone, and Kontakt is a plug-in. You use "Insert tracks from a template". In my case, the template has 16 tracks, which are "children" to a "host" (which is one instance of Kontakt). I got the template from Reaper Blog. Once that is set up, you click on FX button (in the host track). That opens the single instance of Kontakt. You add your instruments there. Once an instrument is there, you assign the "MIDI Ch" for the track number you want to link to in Reaper.

  • BillK@FalconHeights
    BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member
    edited January 2022

    Nope. Tried that. Even tried a different template. Still doesn't work.....at least fully. Like before, arming a specific track in Reaper will only sound the corresponding multis loaded in Kontakt only if in Kontakt I switch to the matching Multi listed in the "Multi Rack" tool bar.......kind of a pain.

    So, you're able to switch through the different tracks in Reaper without having to do anything in Kontakt?......and you were testing this with Multi's (mutiple instruments in each track)?

    And most importantly, was you test done with PREMADE multis (vs you just inserting a bunch of instruments into Kontakt and assigning the appropriate "MIDI Ch" to all the instruments that make up the one channel)? Because then all the instruments and tracks would fall under one MIDI Rack "Bank/Category", probably called "New (default)", and that would eliminate the problem.

    However when I drop these premade Mutis into Kontakt, say, one called "01 Orch Long" (which is made up of 9 instruments), The Muti Rack category changes from "New Default" to "01 Orch Long". The next track is a multi called "02 Orch Short", and wnem I drop that multi into Kontakt, the Multi Rack category then changes to "02 Orch Short". So by the end I have 10 of these Multi Rack "Banks/categories" that I need to scroll between/open to have the tracks in Reaper recognize the instruments. If I could get all of the instruments from every Multi loaded within one category/Bank (New (default)), with the instruments differentiated only by their "MIDI Ch" track assignment, that would solve the issue.

  • EvilDragon
    EvilDragon Moderator Posts: 1,019 mod
    edited January 2022

    What you call "Multi Rack category" is not category, it's just the name of the multi you have opened into Kontakt. It's normal that the title there changes when you open a multi.

    What is not clear to me is - are you loading more than one multi in a single Kontakt instance?

    Maybe it would be more illuminating if you could record a video showcasing your issue? I don't seem to have any trouble loading multis from i.e. Ethno World 6.

  • BillK@FalconHeights
    BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member
    Answer ✓

    Thanks ED. I just figured out the solution (and maybe this is what Uwe was trying to tell me). Once I have all the instruments from all the tracks dropped into Kontakt, with all MIDI Ch assignments as I want them, I have to save the entire thing as a new multi (with a new name). This combines all the individual multis into one.

    Thank's all, and sorry for being so dense.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,903 mod

    Exactly this is what I meant, good that it now works for you and now the fun starts again.

    Uwe

  • BillK@FalconHeights
    BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member
    edited January 2022

    Definitely more than one, ED, I think there are 9 multis being loaded (granted, some of those multis only include 2 instruments, but some are more. In either case, I'm WAY under the limit of the max 64 instruments. Curious why you would think more than one multi in a single instance of Kontakt would make a difference?....especially since some of the multis are only a couple of instruments, and you can pack a lot of instruments in one instance of Kontakt.

    revision: Maybe your comment regarding "more than one multi in a single instance of Reaper" being a problem, explains why when I copied over the files, I had to answer "no", which meant that the files would be merged, instead (I assume) another new Multi being created? - so basically the ENTIRE Kontakt instance was renamed to whatever the latest multi was (vs accumulating multiple Multi names). Then, when I was finished copying in all the multis, I saved the entire thing to a new name - otherwise it would still be called whatever the name of my last copied over multi. Weird, but it seemed to work.

    The problem with merging is that I lost the MIDI Ch designations that were in the original Multi file, and I had to reassign them, but at least now the entire project is under one Multi (with individual instruments differentiated by their track designation). Hence my Reaper tracks can "see" everything without having to scroll through a lot of different Multis.

  • EvilDragon
    EvilDragon Moderator Posts: 1,019 mod

    Right, when merging multis the multi name on top would change to the latest multi loaded.

    But also, be aware that the plugin version of Kontakt can only work with 16 incoming MIDI channels, it doesn't support the other 3 MIDI ports (channels 17-64).

  • BillK@FalconHeights
    BillK@FalconHeights Member Posts: 16 Member
    edited January 2022

    Thanks ED...........as long as I have your attention, and since you personally (off-line) have helped me with Kurzweil issues - so you know the keyboard, I have another issue setting up the template:

    Distortion in Automation sliders 

    • I have a Setup (called MIDI Controller) I created in my (Kurzweil PC3), configured so slider A is controlling Expression (CC11 - Destination set to Express) and slider B controls Dynamics (CC1 - Destination set to MWheel). This allows me to use the kurzweil's sliders as my control surface for "live" control for most libraries, including Spitfire's Albion One.
    • In Reaper, I want to add automation lanes for Expression and Dynamics to every track, and have them be controlled by these same sliders, so I can edit the automation after I record a track, using the sliders.
    • Using ReaControlMIDI, I added control options in Reaper for both of these CCs (CC1 and CC11), and "learned" them to the sliders. 
    • But now, there is pretty bad distortion and "stuttering/glitching" when I move the sliders when I Arm the track to play, even when the Automation lanes are disarmed.
    • I can eliminate the distortion only IF I Arm these 2 Automation Envelope tracks AND the Automation mode is set to Latch mode (dials would now be Red).
    • I even get the distortion if the 2 Envelope lanes are Armed, but the mode is set for Read or Trim/Read.
    • Is there any way to avoid having to screw around with arming and latching the automation lanes if I just want to play the track? Is the problem that I'm somehow "double dipping" - controlling those 2 functions from the Kontakt library and from Reaper's automation?
    • Side note: Thinking that maybe the problem is the Kurzweil's "MIDI Controller" setup. I turned that off, but then I can't "learn" the Automation for the sliders in Reaper (that only works when using the "MIDI Controller" setup that I created).......Says that the "MIDI device must be enabled and set to control in in Preferences/Audio/MIDI devices". My Kurzweil is connected via a Presonus Audiobox interface (MIDI cables, not USB). I checked Preferences for that interface, and and it's listed as Enabled-Control (with Control Messages:Set Channel set for Source Channel. Could the problem be that I'm going through the AudioBox, and I should switch to a USB connection?


  • EvilDragon
    EvilDragon Moderator Posts: 1,019 mod
    edited January 2022

    It does seem like "double dipping" as you said is the problem there. PC3 is sending those CCs and then RCM is sending those CCs too, AND then you're also sending it from host automation...

    The solution here is to use some unrelated CCs from the Kurzweil to MIDI learn those RCM sliders that would ultimately send the CCs that you want to Kontakt.

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