I want to start another useless Nerd debate.

donmaddonald

I don’t know if anyone remembers, but a while ago, I started a 'pointless' discussion just to hear other enthusiasts’ opinions. Today, for the same reason, I’m opening another equally 'pointless' discussion haha.

This time, the question is: What do hardware devices actually do better than a digital platform? 'Warmer' is not an acceptable answer. (j.k.)

In my opinion—nothing, except for one thing: Saturation. At least until we get an 'infinite sample rate.' Because I think everything else can be replicated, even the tactile experience, which is often considered a hardware advantage. A good-quality MIDI controller can do the job—and might even provide a better experience.

I’d love to hear your opinions, especially if they contradict mine!

atoenne

Saturation/sample rate means you are thinking of analog gear? That is actually a point.

To me a dedicated (digital) board does have a few benefits.

Interactivity (boosting creativity) while playing. This is something generic master keyboards do not match (own a NI Kontrol MK3, in front of the computer).

Well crafted and practical usable set of sounds (bread&butter at least). There are few VSTi of this lineage. Even the standard Kontakt libraries fall short in this respect. VSTi very often are geared towards "the next whow sound effect". Sounds interesting but you realize quickly that it is used rather seldomly.

Complexity of VSTi choices, each being a one-trick-pony. Each having a different UI and concept.

And I challenge the need for the final bit of pristine sound quality (of natural instruments for example). A piano with 90gb samples? Why? Would only make sense as a solo instrument. Otherwise you either do not hear that the pianist farted slightly when playing some notes hard :-) or the sound is actually getting in the way of other instruments in a mix. EQ time.

AT

donmaddonald

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/219700#Comment_219700

Oh, sorry, I actually meant analog hardware, so I was referring to 'analog vs digital.' Anyway, this thought came to me while I was doing a mix just by adjusting volumes using the KK 61. Compared to the first generation of the Maschine MK3, its knobs have improved a lot, which sparked this more general reflection.

Anyway, I think the "digital" side of music is often underestimated when people romanticize old technologies. (And this is coming from someone who just bought a Reel to Reel and often uses an old AKAI graphic EQ made for HiFi systems.) But despite my contradiction, I still believe that, as you said, external digital platforms—or even just a computer with decent VSTs—can do much more than old hardware. (Of course, that's just my opinion.)

Skijumptoes

More is not necessarily better, hence why people look back fondly on past decades like the 70s and 80s where people went into studios and worked with the analog gear available, and pushed the boundaries of that hardware, or embraced the limitations and character of it.

It's a bit like asking why you would want to speak to one person face to face when you could be digitally interacting with multiple people around the world.

It's all down to the individual, and great that we have so many choices, but at the same time music has become a very sterile environment where we're continuously being encouraged to be lazier and seek out products to use as a crutch, whilst having so much poked into our brains via external influences.

If you really want the answer, Try a month with no internet, and only using analog hardware and see how that affects your productivity or output vs a digitally emulated environment. I'm pretty sure that most people would feel far more engaged and focused on their art, without distractions.

donmaddonald

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/219705#Comment_219705

You made a great point. From a philosophical standpoint, I can only agree with you. However, from a technical perspective, or at least in terms of the final sound result, I don't think there’s a difference worth thousands of dollars, as many influencers try to make us believe. They overlook the fact that the more hardware you have, the more hardware you need, or you spend the entire studio session re-cabling instruments, compressors, etc.

From my point of view, owning hardware, especially extremely expensive analog gear, is like having a house with a pool. It's nice, especially in the summer, but in reality, from a practical standpoint, what you really need is a house with comfortable sofas, beds, a well-equipped kitchen, etc. And yes, I’d love to have a pool for a swim in the summer, but maybe it’s better to have a warm house for the winter.

When it comes to pushing the limits of hardware and the musician’s capabilities, the same applies to VSTs and computers. The limitations are there, but they’re just different. For example, how many people were making music in your city in the 80s compared to now? I think many fewer. And if you expand your world to include musicians on the internet, you realize the talent and abilities of others, which in turn pushes you to stretch your own limits. It's like saying, "When we used to ride horses, you had a connection with your mode of transportation," without realizing that if someone has a faster horse than yours, they’ll probably win the race. Now, for better or worse, we all have more or less the same tools, so it’s the rider that matters more now. And in my opinion, that’s not bad for music, neither as a hobby nor as a business.

btw side note, you are right more doesn't mean better, but if you have less you don't know if that is true.

mykejb

I find the tactile side of hardware nicer. For some reason I tend to noodle around more on a hardware unit (Kronos/Motif/Fantom etc) than on a S61 MK3, even though the S61 browser and the 8 mapped knobs is quite adequate. Possibly because I've always used hardware for gigging?

LostInFoundation

I have one main reason that would convince me:

If you buy an hardware device that you like (how it works, how it sounds,…) you will not have any NI telling you “we don’t support it anymore and we even remove your ability to install it/use it”.

What you buy is what you will have FOREVER…at least until it breaks ☺️…therefore “physical” reasons, not a decision taken by someone who simply wants to try to force you to buy more stuff from them…

About your “you spend the entire studio session re-cabling instruments, compressors, etc.”… Is it really that worst than spending the entire studio session updating things, discovering why yesterday everything worked and today not, finding out that the shiny new “update” broke everything and you have to revert back to previous version (when possible)? 😂😂😂.

At least when you re-cable things, they then WORK… and you don’t have to spend ulterior hours trying to at least understand how to move past the phase of you speaking with a chat bot and finally contact a support real person…that will probably answer you after days…and maybe with a “I can’t reproduce your issue”… leaving you with the virtual instrument you wanted to enjoy playing for some hours still not working…

When I turn on my 40 years old Korg M1, it simply works. Exactly as it always did.

Does its virtual transposition sound the same? Well… even if… will I be able to still use it in 40 years? (Or…seen nowadays standards…even in only 4 years) 😏

donmaddonald

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/219773#Comment_219773

It make sense.

donmaddonald

Very valid point, actually, ok, is not only saturation haha you are actually right, instruments that are and will be instruments no matter what, I definitely agree with that, for the update part yes and no, because you don’t always update and not always updates break stuff, but the cabling is a constant issue, unless… I repeat myself… you spend good money in more gear that fix that.

But overall I think you have a strong valid point, you made me question my view.