How do I install Kontakt 8.2 without breaking previous Ableton sessions using 8.1 and below?

Jeremymatthew11
Jeremymatthew11 Member Posts: 8 Newcomer
in Kontakt

Hi there,

I just purchased Claire Avant, which only works with Kontakt 8.2. However, if I update to 8.2, I get a problem in Ableton live in which prior sessions and also instrument racks are unable to find/load their respective Kontakt plugins. Instead of the prior patches from 8.1 opening up in Kontakt 8.2, the older versions of Kontakt are not found by Live. This results in a plugin not found error. This indicates to me that Kontakt's update is telling Live it is a new or different plugin than before - and therefore it doesn't recognize Kontakt 8.2 as the correct plugin to open for that instance.

I had a similar problem when I updated some of my sample libraries, and suddenly none of my older sessions could open properly because the sample library updates caused those libraries not to be compatible with Kontakt 6.

I seem to often be at a crossroad in which I can't use both the newer stuff and the older stuff at the same time without sacrificing all projects made before 2025 that haven't been committed to audio.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to use my Claire Avant purchase as I would have to sacrifice compatibility with all prior projects. I have therefore restored to Kontakt 8.1 via Time Machine by restoring the VSTs and AUs so that my instruments and instances work properly.

I've tried all the techniques to solve this issue as a user (scanning, rescanning, deep scanning, custom vst folders, system folders, swapping NI daemons, installing, reinstalling, as well as running system reports and looking through them)

Is there a fix for this?

Thanks so much

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Answers

  • Jeremymatthew11
    Jeremymatthew11 Member Posts: 8 Newcomer

    @Jeremy_NI

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 3,243 Expert
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/42690/how-do-i-install-kontakt-8-2-without-breaking-previous-ableton-sessions-using-8-1-and-below

    Kontakt 8.2 should not break anything done in 8.1 OR in 8.0 - they are all K8.

    If a project has K7.10.7 (or older) that is a potential issue.

    VP

  • Jeremymatthew11
    Jeremymatthew11 Member Posts: 8 Newcomer
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/212365#Comment_212365

    Hmm. So with Kontakt 8.1 installed, my previous Kontakt 7 instances work just fine. But when updating to Kontakt 8.2, it breaks the K7 instances. Why would this occur if Kontakt 7 runs alongside Kontakt 8 and is its own plugin? It's really tough to know when to update anything with Native Instruments because it seems to be the only company that keeps breaking older projects and sessions without warning that even minor updates will destroy prior work. Searching the NI forums, it appears that many, many users have the same types of issues. I feel strongly that professional software like Native Instruments should implement the following logic when making updates:

    1. Sample libraries should always work with the Kontakt version that was available when such libraries came out. I shouldn't update Violins 1.0 to Violins 2.0 and have it disappear from Kontakt 6 for instance - that just destroys all prior work.
    2. Updating Kontakt should not break prior instances of Kontakt that are separate plugins
    3. Users should not have to choose between having their projects and sessions work and updating Kontakt to an incremental minor change (ie 8.2 … 8.3….etc)
    4. Standalone plugins should not be discontinued (like Super 8), which breaks every session containing Super 8. It's ok for a company to choose not to actively update old versions of products, but to make them unavailable at all is really concerning. I had to recreate al my Super 8 patches from scratch because it only works in Reaktor now instead of standalone.
    5. I have many more examples, but the general theme is that compatibility and session integrity is very important for professionals, and the continued updates that cause catastrophic damage to prior work really makes me want to look elsewhere for my instruments.
  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 3,243 Expert

    @Jeremymatthew11

    "But when updating to Kontakt 8.2, it breaks the K7 instances. Why would this occur if Kontakt 7 runs alongside Kontakt 8 and is its own plugin?"

    Hmm - that is a good question. And an odd one.

    What do you see when you say it "breaks" it? Error message?

    If 8.1 does not affect K7 instances - 8.2 should not either.

    Something sounds a bit strange here.

    VP

  • Jeremymatthew11
    Jeremymatthew11 Member Posts: 8 Newcomer
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/212379#Comment_212379

    Thanks for your help btw.


    yes, it’s quite odd…


    When Kontakt 8.2 is installed, K7 instances get the error “the vst3 could not be found”. This doesn’t occur with 8.1 installed.


    this tells me that the update to 8.2 must mess up ableton’s ability to discern the right Kontakt to summon.

    The other problem I’ve had for a few months since making the switch to Apple silicon is that Kontakt 7.vst3 will not show up in Rosetta mode unless I specifically replace the VST3 file with the Kontakt 7.vst3 that was compiled for Intel computers - the file that existed on my old Mac. My friend had the same problem. Our guess is The Silicon version of Native Access installs Kontakt 7.vst3 that doesn’t play well with Rosetta mode. So I need to swap out different versions of the Kontakt 7.vst3 depending on what older session I am opening.

    Kontakt can cause some headaches in this day and age…

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 3,243 Expert

    "When Kontakt 8.2 is installed, K7 instances get the error “the vst3 could not be found”. This doesn’t occur with 8.1 installed"

    That is a different error - which is far from "breaking" K7.

    What mode are you running in here anyways? You should never need Rosetta for anything unless you are specifically needing to run a real old session.

    "The other problem I’ve had for a few months since making the switch to Apple silicon is that Kontakt 7.vst3 will not show up in Rosetta mode"

    Only VST2 requires Rosetta to my knowledge - VST3's are native Apple Silicon. Including Kontakt VST3 - regardless of its age - has always been AS specific.

    I am not a Mac user so maybe someone with more experience can chime in - but this sounds like mishmash of different platform files - giving you exactly the errors they should be giving you if/when Rosetta is turned on.

    VP

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,710 mod

    Kontakt 7 and Kontakt 8 both work with Ableton Live, and can coexist peacefully.

    When you have both installed, and see the "vst3 could not be found" error, I'd recommend trying this before anything else:

    https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000349184-VST-AU-plug-in-doesn-t-appear-in-Live-s-Browser

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 13,848 mod

    I just purchased Claire Avant, which only works with Kontakt 8.2. However, if I update to 8.2, I get a problem in Ableton live in which prior sessions and also instrument racks are unable to find/load their respective Kontakt plugins. Instead of the prior patches from 8.1 opening up in Kontakt 8.2, the older versions of Kontakt are not found by Live. This results in a plugin not found error. This indicates to me that Kontakt's update is telling Live it is a new or different plugin than before - and therefore it doesn't recognize Kontakt 8.2 as the correct plugin to open for that instance.

    I found this a little confusing. Can you post screenshots of error messages?

    Instances of Kontakt 8.2 should definitely open projects saved with instances of Kontakt 8.1. They do for most people.

    Hmm. So with Kontakt 8.1 installed, my previous Kontakt 7 instances work just fine. But when updating to Kontakt 8.2, it breaks the K7 instances. 

    This also should not have such an effect and doesn't for most users. There were no other reports of that issue. This means that we need to investigate what's happening on your system.

    Regarding compatibility issues with libraries and Kontakt versions and by that i mean big versions, like Kontakt 6, Kontakt 7, 8, etc…yes we know it's a pain for users. There are now warning messages when you update certain libraries. Plkease also note that certain DAWs have a automigration system for plug-ins that work for most plug-in vendors, like NI. Ableton is not one of them yet, not sure when they will implement that or if they will at all. Please note that everythinf is ready on our side, it's up to the DAWs to implement this feature. Logic, Cubase, Maschine, Studio One coming next. Notes about Auto-Migration of Kontakt Versions in DAW Projects

    You mention Time Machine, please note that can cause some issues as well, if you have used it in the past it might have negative effects. My Native Instruments Product does not work after using Migration Assistant / Time Machine / Carbon Copy Cloner (Mac OS)

    Also when troubleshooting such things always check the standalone applications and see if everything is functional there, this way you know if the issue is from the plug-in or within the DAW. Also click on the NI logo in the plug-in's window when in your DAW. Does the version match the standalone?

    Again, this is not so relevant to your current issue, there were no other reports, if this was a bug we would need to reproduce it and file it, so for all these reasons, I encourage you to reach out to our support here: https://bit.ly/NI_support_kontakt

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