A USELESS NERD DEBATE TO WASTE YOUR TIME
So, few days ago I was chatting with a friend and we had a very interesting/silly debate.
It is more useful for a producer to have several drum machines such as TR 606, 909, 808, Linn drum and everything along those lines, or have a sampler (hardware, such as Maschine plus, and the competitor that we will not name hahah) and have one tool that can provide you all type of drums.
I sided with the sampler, however I never owned a real drum machine, so I couldn't beat the argument that with with specific drum machines you have more control on the sound and better quality of sound.
I know that this debate is kind of pointless, maybe more philosophical than anything, what are your thoughts? I'd like to hear especially from hardware musicians that have experience with samplers and drum machines
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It's quicker, and more convenient… That said, I can easily attest that if it weren't for all the hardware I learned on, there would be so so many things I wouldn't understand today. Now, I can pick up almost any instrument and once you figure out their nomenclature you can understand all the new gear.
Between routing cables and less chance of "downtime" vs Purity of sound and the gear culture…1 -
Both. There are a myriad of both software and hardware, and costly and cheap, samplers and drum machines.
Personally Ive got a Syntakt, Triaz, a vast sample and .rx2 library, maschine2 + mk3 hardware, a handful of random software samplers and drum machines, and my latest find — Monkey C's Rando. Rando is one of the most amazing little things I've ever put my hands on, and right now I can use its 88 note sample bank to "rando" my ENTIRE 1.2 million sample library with filters for loop/1 shot/drums/melodic/etc. The sampler automatically locks to a key that you can set, locks to project BPM, and keeps all 88 samples in sync with the playhead at all times. (the "magic" option.)
With Rando and its internal step sequencer, you can write midi arrangements for 88 samples at the same time on your piano roll, and it has many other fx and features that Im having a great time with. I dont usually look for "randomization" type samplers, but this one is amazing.
So yeah — samplers + drum machines. Why not? At this point I can produce DAWless or with my DAW, samplers or no samplers, and I love every minute of it.1 -
@Milkman @Royal Tee , ok slight variation to the scenario, so assuming that you retain all your skills and music knowledge, and you are starting a new collection of instruments, and you are already a working music producer, that have to deliver music on a constant base, let's say you already have a guitar a bass and a keyboard, no computer (except for recording).
you are asked to pick ether a drum machine or a sampler, and you can't buy instruments for the next 5 years.
what would be your pick?
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Without a doubt I'd use sampled drums since I rarely have any need for synth drums in the kind of work I do. You tend to pick the tools that are appropriate for the kind of work you do. That's why plumbers rarely need a volt meter.
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@DunedinDragon agree, sampler also for me, and you are right about the tools, but I believe that objectively it is more convenient a sampler. hahah that's what started the whole debate hahah literally not far form this interaction ahhaha
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I don't care much for the sound of drum machines in my music. There was a pack released for Live that contains samples of a variety of well known drum machines and I listened through all of them and I heard few sounds I would want to use. Some kicks, that was it. I make electronic music and don't dislike the sound of drum machines, but I do not find they work well for me.
This is not a comment on the quality of the sounds or whether they will suit your music.
I can't afford to hire a drummer and even if I could I don't think that would work out well. So sampler it is. ‘Sampler’ includes dropping loops into Live's session view and jamming with them to make a new arrangement as well as individual hits in Live's drum racks with programmed midi.
Regarding the original debate: there is no argument for the original machine being better quality. A good sample library made from the machine will be indistinguishable in quality.
Flexibility is a different story. It is possible to design sample libraries, with the right sampler engine, to be very flexible. Whether they can be made flexible enough that there would be no notable difference in how you can manipulate the sounds is uncertain. Any extra flexibility on the original mattering to anyone but a music nerd is unlikely.
Flexibility isn't everything anyway. I get flexibility with samples of real* drums by having many. There's not a lot of flexibility on a real drum set** and drummers do amazing things without it.
*and synthesised – some of my sample libraries have these, though different in design to what I have heard from drum machines, and more suited to me.
**you can change the tension on the drum heads, but that has more limited results than synthesised drums, and is not something drummers tend to do much once they have settled on how they want their kit to sound.
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I definitely agree!
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I guess this is why I have so many different drum sampler libraries from different sources. There's just no one drum kit that's perfect for everything. Likewise, studios and producers can make a significant difference in the overall tone and feel of how a drum kit gets captured, not to mention the artist being used to create the samples. I even have some kits that were captured in well known acoustically unique recording locations in London by Hans Zimmer using orchestral mic'ing techniques.
As a non-drummer I don't know everything, but I know the sound I want when I hear it.
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Drum machine/synth any day. Syntakt, for example, is a legendary drum computer and synth, it packs a huge amount of potential into its very fun control surface, and it can stand alone.
Im almost always a DAW/studio producer because that is my forte and I really enjoy the power of a PC DAW, but Ive found that Syntakt (or Digitakt) can become the puppetmaster for many other MIDI devices through USB hubs or MIDI cables and you can really do a LOT DAWless.I also record my partner's electric and acoustic guitar, and we have some mics for various things. If we didnt have a PC, it would 100% be the Syntakt + bass + guitar + our synths + maybe a mic, and this would be very productive and enjoyable.
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Fair enough, it makes totally sense! I'd pick a sampler, but I definitely see why you'd rather pick a Syntakt.
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If you are really wanting a sampler, the Digitak II is definitely a great one and it has the same workflow and UI As Syntakt. Also - all Elektron boxes can also be used to control 16 MIDI channels, so Syntakt/Digitakt/Digitone/etc can also control other gear or sofware over MIDI. (the puppetmaster thing)
Im moving entirely away from the NI ecosystem unfortunately, so Im really opening up my studio to more professional hardware and software and Ive found contingency plans for everything I used to rely on NI for(such as drum machines, samplers, etc).
I've found that NI's philosophy, as time passes, just doesnt offer the same value proposition as many other brands, and it seems they just move more and more toward glorified sample-based instruments. I make my own samples and sample-based instruments, lol.
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I am not planing to change my workflow at the moment, it was just a fake scenario, to see if people prefer more drum machines or samplers for programming/playing their drums.
but I see what are you saying, fair enough, myself I like the convenience of having MIDI controllers that work seemingly with my daw and the actual VSTs, I also had few synths over the years, just to have a little bit of extra creativity from time to time.
but I do produce myself and other artist, and I find myself faster when I stay in the box, my current workflow is the perfect mix of ease and complexity that keeps me going. At the moment as my only external gear I have a Arturia micro-freak, but I'd like one day to just have a polyphonic analog synth, and would be enough for me.
I have no time for a new learning curve for something I can already do, I am semi-pro.. aka a glorified hobbyist, so I can't go mad scientist in the lab, when I have studio time I am working for someone that pays and I have to be fast, but if I was a full time musician I will definitely create a computer free set-up in my studio, because is real fun, but I'd most likely end up losing the scope of the project.
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I once downloaded a pack of almost if not all drum machines and that's enough for me, I also tagged them within maschine. If I need something else I have enough tools like the drum modules in maschine or other stuff like reaktor instruments and what not. There is absolutely no need for me for any hardware drum machine.
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I have to admit I have a lot of curiosity myself about getting more deeply into the synth world, but like you I'm typically on a fairly tight schedule to get something finished, so learning something as complex and deep as modern synthesizers is time I don't really have. And that's saying a lot since I'm actually retired. But being retired means you become available for all sorts of other duties like kids and grandkids and doctor's appointments that get in the way of just having some fun time.
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the question was for that specific scenario, like, what you would do in that scenario? I would do exactly as you (or me), but than I realised that other people would definitely go with a drum synth even people that now work with samplers for their drums, witch seemed crazy to me, but good argument have been made for both sides, but in conclusion I think I'll stay in the sampler team.
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