HELP: NI denies activation of B4-II after new installaton

klausus · 2024-08-20T17:40:48+00:00

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I'm using B4-II for 19 years. And I love it.

Now, me 6 year old current laptop with Windows broke
and I had to buy a new one. Until now B4-II run very
smooth under Windows 10 64 bit!

Sadly NI has finished support for B4-II in 2020 for
internal reasons. This means that now NI doesn't offer any
possibility to aktivate B4-II after a new installation.

Well, I can understand that NI refuses support in case of
bugs. May be it's a matter of manpower etc.
But it's another game to prohibit using B4-II in case of
new installation.

When I requested help on2024-08-15 NI pointed to this link:
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006053397-Service-Center-and-Legacy-Products-End-of-Life

Interestingly in the last paragraph NI is talking about
"to provide at-your-own risk support". I asked for exacty
this kind of support.

Until now NI keeps silent. It's simply annoying.

Any help is appreciated.

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Vocalpoint

As gently as I can put this - B4-II was discontinued (retired) long ago as was any ability to activate it.

While that last paragraph of the support entry you mention does say:

"Yes, in specific cases we might be able to provide at-your-own risk support for our end-of-life products."

It also says:

"We can’t promise anything at this point and technical feasibility needs to be evaluated."

Any technical feasibility for activation of B4-II (or any other product that used the really old Service Center) is not possible here in 2024.

The only other option I can think of would be the creation of some sort of offline authorization capability for these old instruments - but that capability does not exist currently. That would be up to NI to consider.

FWIW: I loved B4-II back in the day too - but found a very close second within the Vintage Organs library that is fully supported in Native Access v3.13.x today.

Might be an option for you.

Continued success.

BIF

I chewed NI a new one when they stopped support for B4-II. But that was back in… what, 2007? B4-II was its own instrument, not just a library by itself. And unsupported software can break one day, or refuse to install.

So in 2007-2010, that's when we needed to be looking for an alternative. Over the years, Native Instruments even offered some alternatives (though in my opinion none were as good as B4-II).

But that was then and this is now.

In 17 years time, I have more organ sounds than I'll ever know what to do with. Arturia, NI, UAD, they all have decent hammond sounds.

Even my newer Fantom and Montage synthesizers have passable Hammond organ sounds…and with the Fantom, you can use the sliders as your drawbar controllers! But you don't need to drop bucks on a $3500 synth. You can still get good organs for a song and a dance. Or for free. Google is your friend. Or try DuckDuckGo.

Get searching. You might find that one of the free ones or maybe one of the $30 ones will work for you. And then you can stop wishing NI would change its ways. Yeah, I had to go through that too, lol!

Good luck!

klausus

@BIF

@Vocalpoint

Thank you for your comments and attempts fot help.

My main problem is that I can't get in contact with a real person at NI. I tried to point out that I don't want to be supported because of bug or so. Preformatted answers don't help. I'm convinced that there exists a B4-II-developer version without activation needs.

For me it feels strange that NI hasn't deactivated the B4-II on my former PC in the past. In the above link they promise the further and unlimited use of an already installed B4-II. And on the other hand NI denies an new installation because they deactivated the service center. This is a contradiction. When I bought B4-II in 2002 I made an contract with NI. And in the terms and conditions based on 2002 there is no word writen about possible future deny of activation. NI never thought of.

For my knowledge NI violates the german law of consumer protection.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/173806#Comment_173806

@klausus

Totally understand that you are disappointed but B4-II is long since retired with no chance of support or a return or any activation here in Fall 2024.

Wanted to clarify - In terms of your older PC - there is no concept of any product being "deactivated" once it was activated AND you could use any product in an unlimited way - unless you decide to change your machine, your OS or mess with the original activation.

Logically speaking - if you installed B4-II in 2010 and left your machine as is - it should work the same today as 14 years ago.

However - since you chose to buy a new machine and are now subject to a new authorization toolset here in 2024 - that does not automatically entitle you to assume you can install an ancient product from 2002 and carry on.

Would be nice if we could do that - but we cannot expect any vendor to maintain support for every product they ever created - forever. That is not realistic.

klausus

@Vocalpoint

It's not that simple. As I wrote before I don't ask for bug-support. I simply asked for a way to activate B4-II.

There are some possibilities to archieve this.

NI could provide legal B4-II users an activation file, i.g.
NI could provide a "dev"-version of B4-II with deactivated activation-part.
NI could proceed like they do with other older software.

NI has broken the contract between customers and NI. The valid EULA is from 2001 !!

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/174193#Comment_174193

@klausus

You are not the first (or the last) user to chime in here waving an ancient EULA and threatening legal action.

And I fully support your intent to do what you need to do (legally) to "challenge" your contract but please - don't just say you are going to do it - actually do it - or let it go.

Kubrak

@klausus

Simply consider raising legal suit against NI. Old EULA says clearly that NI should provide you with means of authorisation. All what NI says, that it is not possible, is just not true. They just decided to break EULA and so save money… And they rely on that that nobody will take it to court.

If you are in EU, I will join you. Not because of B4-II, but all NI SW on Win10 started to be affected quite recently (but there is workaround) and will be fully affected in few months. And Absynth and Super8 might come soon.

********************

Even current EULA gives user the right to have the right for eternal, unlimited authorisation.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/174221#Comment_174221

Just read the current EULA end to end found here:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/company/legal-information/end-user-license-agreement/

There is zero reference whatsoever to provide any activation for any specific timeframe (eternal/unlimited or otherwise) beyond the scope of using Native Access as we do now.

Sounds like yet another reference to yet another old document.

VP

Kubrak

@Vocalpoint

There is that licence is time unlimited, in current EULA. That implies NI must provide unlimited authorisation. If NI does not provide unlimited authorisation licence cannot be used. If licence cannot be used because of reason on NI side, licenncee may perform steps to use that licence (for example break protection) and ask NI to pay the cost to make NI SW usable.

But old EULA that applies to B4-II is even more explicit concerning authorisation…. Generally universal key is should be provided, if authorisation is not possible ….

Next comes part of EULA that came with Komplete 8 - version March 2011.

**************************************************************

Registration / Activation

It is required that you register the Licensed Software in order to receive an activation key that enables you to use the Licensed Software on your computer. The serial number of your product is embedded in the activation information that is passed from your music computer to our database. Registration means that the owner's name, address and email address are stored together with the Native Instruments serial number in our registration database. For the registration you need to enter your name, email address and postal address.

Without activation it is not possible to use Native Instruments products. The Native Instruments SERVICE CENTER guides you trough the easy-to-follow step by step Native Instruments activation process. The installer of your Native Instruments product contains a copy of the necessary plug-in and will be installed automatically.

The Native Instruments activation uses information about essential system components of the user's audio computer encoded in the Activation Request File. This information does not contain any personal data. The Activation Request File will be used to create an activation key, which works only on the computer where the Activation Request File has been generated.
In case you want to use your Native Instruments product on a different computer or in case of certain changes on your present computer a re-activation might become necessary.

Should Native Instruments for whatever reasons no longer be able to fulfill its obligations to deliver the activation key, it will provide the Licensee with a key which ensures the continued use of the Licensed Software independent of changes of the computer.

Native Instruments uses a secure SSL connection with 128-bit-encryption that meets current security standards to transmit your data over the web.

Native Instruments does not pass these data to third parties.
In case you bought a third parties´ product bundled with a Native Instruments´ product you agree that Native Instruments makes available your registration data to the third party unless you object to such transfer in writing.

You agree that Native Instruments may use this information, observing the Data Protection Laws, as long as it is in a form that does not personally identify you, to improve its products or to provide services or technologies to you and unless you object to such using in writing.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/174232#Comment_174232

I think you may be missing the point. Yes - of course there is a EULA that we agree to but we are also subject to Terms and Conditions as well. As laid out in Section 6 of the EULA:

Which brings us here for the FULL terms and conditions:

Terms And Conditions : Terms And Conditions Inc | Legal Information (native-instruments.com)

And especially this part (highlighted)

Like %99.99% of all active software agreements worldwide - as soon as we accept the current EULA - we are accepting any binding T&C's - making all other prior agreements effectively superseded. Been this way for decades.

So if you think the 2011 EULA is going to hold water here in 2024 - good luck with your challenges.

Kubrak

In EU it is valid. And even current EULA gives time unlimited licence and so on.

And besides, many parts of EULA may be invalid if it is clearly against general rights of consumer. It has happened to many EULAs in past.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/174250#Comment_174250

Perfect.

Still cannot locate any current document - anywhere - that gives you (EU resident) an unlimited license - but if you say so - it must be true.

That said - chatting it up in here and making assumptions on what you think you are going to get is not the same as hiring a lawyer and seeing what you will actually get.

As always - interested to see where you go with this.

Studiowaves

I'd call NI, Just because it's discontinued doesn't mean the can't register it for you.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/174259#Comment_174259

B4-II requires an authorization tool that was retired years ago as well.

No chance of any way to activate it now.

Kubrak

No EULA says something else. NI is obliged to provide licencee universal key. It is in EULA. And Service Senter still may be run on computer and it provides offline authorisation. It was NI decision to cut down even this branch to fullfill its obligation to authorise SW.

We are in EU, there is no place for appleisation of licencee rights. ;-)

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