Kontakt 6 instruments no longer working in existing Ableton Live sets

Paul B · 2024-08-05T17:05:00+00:00

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I opened a support ticket for this and got what appears to be a standard response which ignored all the substantial detail I gave and listed a series of generic steps none of which work.

I responded to that, but unless it gets elevated to the technical team I do not expect a resolution so I am trying here. @Jeremy_NI

System:

macOS Ventura 13.6.8

Ableton Live 12.0.15

Kontakt 6.8.0

Lo-Fi Glow 2.0.0

Preliminary:

I am aware that Lo-Fi Glow 2.0.0 requires Kontakt 7.6. Lo-fi Glow 2.0.0 was released on 2023-10-16. I point this out because I want to be very clear that until sometime after January 27 2024, Lo-Fi Glow continued to load into Kontakt 6 as long as it was in a Live set containing a saved instance of Kontakt 6. It did not load in a new instance, but did in an existing one. This is very important! I did this many times, including, as pointed out, on or after 2024-01-27, which is the last date at which I saved a version of the Live set, and on which date this instrument was working in that set with Kontakt 6 (I have opened and played back the set since then, but not edited it. I don't know the last date on which I did this). I confirmed with other Live sets after I heard that new instrument versions were no longer loading in K6, and every one of them worked in existing saved sets. At a guess, I'd say this is because whatever was not compatible in the new versions was not something I'd used (because it had not existed before) and so caused no errors, and the check for version compatibility only happened on loading a new instance of the instrument into Kontakt, not reloading one with which Kontakt had been saved in a Live set. Admittedly the fact that this worked was probably an accident. The point is that it worked.

Problem description:

I open the Live set
I am informed that there is a problem loading samples, possible missing content
Ableton Live Kontakt Recall.png
I use Resolve Manually→Browse for folder, locate my Content folder, which has not moved since February 2023
Kontakt Files Not Found.png
All samples are found
The instrument is in demo mode and makes no sound
Kontakt Demo Instrument.png
I cannot save a snapshot to migrate to Kontakt 7 because of demo mode
I wait until Kontakt times out and asks me to activate in Native Access
This isn't possible because the instrument is already activated, so nothing happens
The instrument works fine in Kontakt 7
I load Kontakt 6 standalone
It does not even list the instrument on the left. It used to, though it would not load it due to compatibility issues

Again I want to emphasise that this Live set and others like it worked for months after the compatibility requirements were changed and my instruments were updated.

The fact that the instruments are no longer listed in the K6 browser, but are activated and work in K7, along with what I read in the Native Access Q3 update thread, lead me to believe that whatever was done to address installation of newer instrument versions when a user only has K6, along with whatever removed the newer instrument versions from the K6 browser, are likely culprits. Native Access has told K6 it can't see these instruments, so it can't. When I locate the instrument, it thinks it is a demo because it is not activated for K6. This is a guess, but seems reasonable.

What is the best approach for me to recover these Live set Kontakt instances and migrate them to Kontakt 7? Preferably without having to downgrade all the instruments, since the only Native Instruments library that still shows up in K6 is Pharlight, so I'd need to downgrade everything else that ever had a K6 version.

I have tried deleting xml files. I have tried batch resave (can't because not compatible). There is no reason to believe a reinstall will help (the instrument works in Kontakt 7 and is obviously correctly installed). It is not a permissions problem (nothing changed there). Content hasn't been moved.

The only thing which had any effect is saving a new version of the Live set. On reloading that, no content missing error. And no instrument at all loaded in Kontakt, demo or otherwise.

I accept I should have migrated all instances of Kontakt 6 to 7 as soon as I knew that compatibility requirements had changed, while the Live sets still worked even with the new instrument versions. I did not expect Native Instruments would break this, since it had worked for months post new versions, but probably should have assumed it would happen eventually. That's on me. But I need help from Native Instruments now to recover these instruments, save them as snapshots, and migrate to Kontakt 7.

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Jeremy_NI

Hey @Paul B There were a few updates for some libraries that broke compatibility with Kontakt 6. Lo Fi Glow is one of them. You can find the installers for the previous version here: Previous versions of recently updated Kontakt libraries / compatibility with K6 older libraries

Paul B

@Jeremy_NI Thanks. I am aware of this compatibility change.

I was hoping to get some insight into what changed since these last worked. As I explained, they worked for months after the compatibility updates - i.e. I have been using Lo-Fi Glow 2.0.0, the one requiring Kontakt 7, successfully with Kontakt 6 in existing Live sets.

The only software that has changed since the last known working date, apart from some minor version updates of macOS Ventura, is Native Access. From the Q3 update thread, one thing it apparently changed was how it deals with these libraries and Kontakt 6, preventing updates to incompatible library versions. So I thought that might be what broke my sets and made the libraries invisible in the K6 browser. And maybe an older version of Native Access might help. Then I don't need to download and install all old versions (since it's basically every library I own except Pharlight) and then after fixing my Live sets, re-download the latest versions again.

Note that the instruments still load after I relocate the samples, indicating no compatibility problems preventing load. But they are in Demo mode. This is all that really needs fixing, for them to not be Demo. Then I can save snapshots. Since Native Access controls whether Kontakt 6 sees them as activated, this is really an activation problem, but localised to K6.

I can't find release notes for Native Access. Is it possible to find the version of Native Access before these changes? Or a complete list of older releases so I can go back and find one that works myself?

I tried with Lo-Fi Glow since it is a relatively small library. I hoped I could install it to a new location on a different drive and temporarily relocate, save my snapshots, then switch back. There was no way to relocate (trying to change install path in Native Access did not work). But my Live set now works (somehow finding the content even though Native Access doesn't know about it and still shows the new version in a different location). Unfortunately when I try to switch back the new version of Lo-Fi glow is completely broken and I can't, because Native Access thinks everything is fine, only Kontakt 7 can't find it and can only see the old version. If I remove the old version then it sees nothing and can't be told where the new one is. And still Native Access thinks everything is fine and sees the new version. Is there a way to "reinstall/relocate" that reuses the existing already installed content but only updates the location without downloading anything?

Edit: I originally referenced Vocal Colors as a large library I'd prefer not to have to reinstall, but I don't think that was ever K6 compatible, and I bought it shortly after I bought K7, so all good on that one.

Paul B

For some extra super weird fun…

After deleting the installation of the K6 version of Lo-Fi Glow, I reopened my Live set. It was back to "missing content". I point it at the content for the K7 version, and now it loads not in demo mode! And sound plays. So K6 is back to successfully using the K7 version of Lo-Fi Glow with no compatibility issues.

Except Lo-Fi glow is still in the Kontakt instrument browser as "broken, needs repair" but can't be repaired because Native Access thinks it is fine, and can't be loaded except in an existing Live set now.

So I am at this point completely convinced this is an activation issue. Native Access deactivated the instruments for K6 in some recent update. Installing the old one fixed that activation. But broke the new one in the Kontakt instrument browser. Native Access thinks it is fine. It works in my K6 instance that had it loaded before and saved in a Live set (after pointing it at the content folder). But it doesn't work in the Kontakt instrument browser (K6 and K7).

Paul B

Update

I followed the instructions for fixing missing instruments in the Kontakt Browser.

Kontakt 7 wants me to use Native Access, which thinks nothing is wrong because it can see the library exactly where it thinks it should be, so I can't use that.

Kontakt 6 has a "Locate" option in the instrument browser.

Pointed it at the correct location for the K7 compatible Lo-Fi Glow 2.0.0 (my original Content folder where it was still installed).
It found everything, and the instrument showed up in the browser. Won't load because not compatible. So far so expected.
Open Kontakt 7. It sees the instrument and it loads!
Open the previously broken Ableton Live set. No missing content warning. No demo mode. Sound plays. This all with the K7 compatible Lo-Fi Glow 2.0.0.

This is great, mostly. I did not have to overwrite my current install of the instrument. I did not have to reinstall the new version. I can use the new one as before even though technically not compatible. All is as it was.

But why did it break? Again I have to think it's something Native Access changed to stop Kontakt 6 accessing the instrument. And this process fixed that. What did installing then deleting the old version do? It changed some configuration somewhere. This configuration is what was broken between 27 January 2024 and now.

Emphasising again that this is all working now without having to keep the Kontakt 6 version of the instrument installed. So it's not a compatibility problem. It's a configuration problem.

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