NKS User Library

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  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 410 Pro
    edited October 2022

    Id love to see that, but that isn't 3.0 if I was the project lead.

    3.0 would be scalable GUI (not kontakt instruments - the GUI itself) with new browser from Kontakt.

    My wishlist now is:

    1. Multi support, because right now, NI isn't supporting all kontakt libraries 100%.
    2. Layered preset saves.
    3. Effect only loading (like Maschine already has), for get this, "Komplete Kontrol" of effects in DAW.
  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,712 mod

    Yes I'm hoping now this is out of the way we will get back to the things that have been put off:

    Modernised GUI

    Proper full FX support

    Multis

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,712 mod

    Just a reminder I created these for 2 purposes - a) to test VST3 NKS functionality, b) they are templates so are meant to enable control primarily but can also serve as starting points for generating presets for anyone who needs KK to also be a preset librarian as well as a controller

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,575 Expert

    Ok, it may have been a different test I did that worked....

    I did find that almost no plugins work with VST3 versions at all. There is a way I can make them work however, again almost every plugin has a completely different set of control IDs for the parameters that will need a whole new template made.

    I did a whole post on it but will be trawling through things and updating my site with what is and is not going to be updated. Times like this I am so glad I chose Windows as my primary workhorse and not macOS. The M1 thing will be problematic for YEARS to come and I am betting a few people will lose some progress with instruments that will never be M1 compatible.

    Anyway, if anyone wants to read up on the state of things (I wanted to release this before the update but was told by Matt I couldn't mention any of it) read it here:

    I would like to express the gratitude to the VERY few users that were in the Beta helping to test things and also express the sheer disappointment to those who have been on the Beta test list for years that have not bothered to invest any time in helping. It is because of this it takes so long for things to release and why issues are still discovered after release. If you are one of these people who take up a valuable position in the Beta but contribute nothing maybe request to be removed so more active and willing people can help out. I think only about 3 or 4 people bothered (myself and Kymeia inclusive of that) to post anything useful in testing.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,575 Expert

    Open Betas are never a good idea for focused testing. Open Betas are good for wider spread cases but people make noise which is hard to cut through and in most cases users use open Beta platforms as a soapbox to voice their wishes and concerns instead of simply testing things that need to be tested.

    In saying this tho, the current state of the Beta is a joke from a user input stance. No idea who is on the Beta but input from those who are registered is almost non existent. NI need to wipe the slate of ALL testers from he last 12 months who have contributed nothing and reach out to the users asking to help (then make sure they actually do).

    I have enough things to do in a day but still try and invest a heap of time testing so users can have a better experience. Kind of feels pointless when you wake up to an inbox full of your typical blind user who has just updated and now nothing works!!!!!!!!! And of course that is my fault.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,575 Expert

    As you have discovered, you still need Rosetta mode and will do for months to come.

    Also hate to pile on even more bad news for you but likely ALL your past projects will not work with the VST3 counterparts of most non-NI plugins either meaning that you will need to maintain Rosetta mode forever OR you will have to open every project and manually swap out the VST2 plugin for VST3 and resave (as a new version as you already practice) and of course any automation you recorded will also have to be redone.

    This is not an NI issue either mind you, this is the reality check of macOS and how it maintains compatibility with things. There will be many plugins that will simply never run under M1 native so you will be forced to drop them at some stage to move forward. Just the unfortunate state of things.

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 410 Pro

    I've not been on the beta, at least for KK. That said, I'd be more than happy to give feedback, as I've done for other product before.

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 410 Pro

    And without further ado...

    If you bought anything from Plugin Boutique in the last month, this might come in really handy:

    Lifeline Expanse Lite - VST 3 Multi FX

    This was a pretty simple one, so I just wanted to run through a test case - feel free to check it out, but do let me know if anyone has issues. In advance, I don't have Mac, so I can't test there, I'm afraid.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,575 Expert

    Yeah that's something NI need to really action.

    I know there are literally hundreds of users, i've been on the Beta for years and try contribute and test where I can but I also do a lot of Beta testing in other areas and run Beta programs and to be perfectly blunt, "people" in general are not good at being testers. Select people are, certainly, but many create more work than help since you have to ask so many follow up questions only to find out their issue is a support problem, not a bug as they report.

    Anyway, maybe one day we will see some more active people of the Beta or simply accept the slow releases and variety of small issues

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 410 Pro
    edited October 2022

    I think you've hit the QA nail on the head @JesterMgee

    To use videogames as an example (experience, rather than random), 80% of public beta testers will offer feature requests. 10% won't offer any feedback. 5% will complain it doesn't do what they expect and stop playing after 30 minutes, 3% will never take part, and 2% will offer some feedback.

    On a closed beta, these numbers go down massively.

    If we apply that same logic to an even smaller audience for music technology product, that's going to be a lot of people not giving any feedback whatsoever.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,575 Expert

    Yeah it's not isolated to this Beta, it's common and the reason many companies have closed Betas for specialized software, that and also control of information getting out.

    I have users that email me saying they are on the Beta and they know VST3 is coming etc but still I never see them actually post or even answer simple questions myself and others have. Some have even posted me issues direct and I have been really puzzled like why the hell aren't you posting that in the Beta channel man, i'm not one of your free lifelines to solve all your issues.

    But I digress, would just be very handy to have some active users that could do a quick test and confirm a thing or 2.

  • Eight4aWish
    Eight4aWish Member Posts: 53 Helper

    I recall on one of the threads that you were going to take a look at scripting the nksf (vst version) to nksf (vst3 version) - as opposed to rerunning preset creation. I had a quick look at one example and it didn’t look straightforward. Was that your conclusion?

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,575 Expert

    It's not straightforward or even proven to work on every library but it's what I have as a start.

    It requires basically taking the newer info from a NKS preset saved as VST3 and injecting that into existing presets. This means taking plugin ID and also a new control map with new control IDs since most plugins it seems will differ here. This info needs to be unpacked from the NKS files and repacked again but this only updates the call to the plugin and it's not a given that the plugin data will work with certain plugins.

    In some tests I have done it is working (Spectrasonics for instance) but there may be some that wont work which in that case I will need to basically re-rip all presets again and retag. If it comes to that I will code something that will at least take the tag info from existing files and inject that into new files so all I will need to do is re-run the ripping scripts for the plugins then update their info from existing but it's never that simple.

    Rest assured tho I am working on solutions and have a number of fallback ideas to make things work.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,712 mod

    No point converting presets while in beta as some things were still being fixed and it may well have meant having to do it all again after release.

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