Master out and booth out latency issue..

Zeke Csontos

Hi guys.. how ste we all? Im new to this forum but ive recently purchased an NI contoller and I have a query.. so i'm using an S4 Mk2 and I'm trying to connect two sets of speakers to it using the booth and master out connections? I've noticed that there is an audible delay between the two outputs? Has anyone ever had this issue and how did you solve it? I've checked the latency in traktor and it's set to 1ms (which is the lowest it will go) I've also adjusted the process buffer to it's lowest setting of 32 samples but when I turn the booth volume up it makes no difference?

I've checked to make sure all effects are off (all knobs turned fully to the left and all lights are off) and I even checked my laptops audio settings but there is nothing to adjust as it is all connected to the S4 soundcard.

If anyone has any ideas on how to solve this please let me know as I've tried everything.

Cheers.

maniacintosh81

@Zeke Csontos It is just my expectation how it is solved. Don't know what NI really has done with S4 Mk2. But as you are using Bluetooth speakers in both of them is some circuitry involved which can result in different delays.

If you use exactly the same speakers I would assume no delay between booth speakers. But I cannot make any promises.

If there is really a delay issue NI won't made this on purpose. But in normal use it shouldn't matter anyway. With larger PA systems like in clubs it is totally normal to have a delay between booth and the main sound system. In these systems you can have cable lengths which can result in a delay in itself. Often there ist additional sound processing (think of limiters or processing to optimize the sound for this special room) which adds other delays. On really large systems you may have to add additional delays if some speakers are further away than others. Therefore I would always assume in a live situation that the main sound system is delayed in comparison to my cue and booth signals. Wouldn't expect a delay between master out and booth out on the mixer/controller either but my point is that booth out isn't a second master out. Its purpose is to feed booth speakers which usually are needed to give the DJ an undelayed signal compared to cue signals.

If we are talking about bluetooth speakers I don't expect too long cable runs in your situation. Cable lengths won't matter to much then. You usually shouldn't hear differences between 2 meter or 5 meter cable, the signal moves almost with speed of light.

lord-carlos

Are you sure the problem is not one of the speakers?

What speakers do you have connected?

maniacintosh81

I am with @lord-carlos. I also suspect your speaker setup. I have connected my home cinema system to my DJ setup at home. The home cinema system does some internal sound processing therefore the sound is always delayed over the speakers. I expect a similar effect with your setup. One speaker system does some more processing as the other one.

As you cannot configure different booth and master outputs within Traktor Pro, the booth and master outputs are fed with the same signal from Traktor. Without owning a S4 Mk2 I cannot confirm this but I expect that internally the booth and master signals are just split after the DAC and have different knobs to set the volume.

Zeke Csontos

Hi Maniacintosh81 👋

Thanks for your reply. I'm hoping you are correct about the signal being the same over both outputs. It wouldn't make sense to have a slight delay on one of them in any scenario?

ATM I am using 2 different types of speaker. Both are Bluetooth speakers however both of them have an Aux input. The RCA/phono out on the S4 is conneced to the Aux in on the Bluetooth speaker via a phono/RCA (red & white) to headphone stereo jack cable in to the Bluetooth speakers aux input and the other socket is a 1/4" (red &white) to stereo jack which also goes to the aux in on the second Bluetooth speaker. Do you think if I were to buy two cables exactly the same length and brand and have both Bluetooth speakers exactly the same that it would prevent this lag that I'm hearing between the booth and mains out?

Assumimg that you sre correct and the signal is exactly same on both outputs of the S4 then logic would dictate that if the cables and speakers are identical then it should work? Right?

If there is a slight latency issue between the booth out and mains out why would NI even do that? It would make beatmatching really hard since the sound of one is slightly behind it would always sound like the mix is out of sync? Even when there is only one tune playing?

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it 🙏

Zeke Csontos

@lord-carlos

ThE speakers are Bluetooth speakers with aux inputs. Both of which are different brands. Having read the other reply here im going to assume that if I buy a second speaker which is exactly the same and buy two cables of the same brand and length then my issue should hopefully be resolved as both booth and mains out on the S4 are the same.

lord-carlos

Ah, bluetooth. Yes, they often have delay even on aux.

Speakers that are very good and don't have delay: MiniRig and soundboks.

But they are .. expensive :D There are also cheaper speakers with no delay.

maniacintosh81

@Zeke Csontos It is just my expectation how it is solved. Don't know what NI really has done with S4 Mk2. But as you are using Bluetooth speakers in both of them is some circuitry involved which can result in different delays.

If you use exactly the same speakers I would assume no delay between booth speakers. But I cannot make any promises.

If there is really a delay issue NI won't made this on purpose. But in normal use it shouldn't matter anyway. With larger PA systems like in clubs it is totally normal to have a delay between booth and the main sound system. In these systems you can have cable lengths which can result in a delay in itself. Often there ist additional sound processing (think of limiters or processing to optimize the sound for this special room) which adds other delays. On really large systems you may have to add additional delays if some speakers are further away than others. Therefore I would always assume in a live situation that the main sound system is delayed in comparison to my cue and booth signals. Wouldn't expect a delay between master out and booth out on the mixer/controller either but my point is that booth out isn't a second master out. Its purpose is to feed booth speakers which usually are needed to give the DJ an undelayed signal compared to cue signals.

If we are talking about bluetooth speakers I don't expect too long cable runs in your situation. Cable lengths won't matter to much then. You usually shouldn't hear differences between 2 meter or 5 meter cable, the signal moves almost with speed of light.

Zeke Csontos

That's awesome.. thank you guys. 😊 I think you've both answered my question? I am aware of there being a presence of delay in a large club environment between the DJ Booth and main dance floor speakers but as you've mentioned the cables are indeed only a few metres each as it is only for me to play outside in the garden or at the beach etc... so if both speakers are of the same brand and model I shouldn't hear any delay between booth and master.

Have a great Bank Holiday.. thanks for your input..

Cheers.

Kubrak

Just to mention that while lenght of cables makes different delays, in real world no-one would be capable to distinguish it…

For making 1 ms delay, the cable 300 km long would be needed….