Maschine 2.18.0 2.18.1 Note Repeat velocity locked when "LOCK" is on. FIXED on 2.18.3
Answers
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That is indeed an interesting and unexpected finding. So if the pads are sending AT but filtering out certain AT data when only using note repeat the bigger question is why? I'm not able to check this right now but I'm very keen to replicate this myself tomorrow. I would have said that midi from maschine hardware to maschine software is also coming from an external source.
I'm still on windows 10 so it might be the difference.
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I think Maschine filters AT because it's sequencer does not know what to do with it. Since it uses AT for note repeat velocity, it allows it only in that scenario. In this case, the sequencer does not record AT, just velocity data.
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@Mark Oxley what do you think polyphonic aftertouch is? You seem to have strong idea. Could you share your definition and enlighten the community?
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I think this thread would go a lot better if we used 2 terms for aftertouch.
The act of applying pressure and getting different values over time.
There's also a standard midi implementation of aftertouch that is interoperable with every other device that supports the standard midi implementation of aftertouch. NI doesn't follow the standard midi implementation for a lot of stuff in maschine. It's one of the reasons they're able to make a controller that works so well with their software; but I also think it's an intentional design choice. That's a topic for another thread.
I think Mark is talking about the standard midi implementation. The maschine software doesn't do it. It never has. The maschine hardware can do it when in midi mode and used with software or hardware that supports the standard midi implementation. It's not something built into the hardware because the maschine hardware is just a dumb box with no utility unless you plug it into a computer. It's sending out data that's converted into the standard midi implementation. I think it's fair to say maschine doesn't have aftertouch.
The note repeat feature has a function you operate with the same mechanics as aftertouch (press pad, vary the pressure and you get values over time). I wouldn't call it 'aftertouch' because it's not the standard midi implementation; but I can understand calling it aftertouch. I can pitchbend on my guitar, but it doesn't have a pitchwheel or send midi data. It's still called pitchbending.
Maybe we should call the standard midi implementation "midi aftertouch" to remove any confusion. Use a maschine controller in midi mode with a computer and you can get "midi aftertouch" if you use it with software or hardware that supports the standard midi implementation. M+ (and I guess the mk3) can do full poly aftertouch/pressure. The maschine software doesn't do "midi aftertouch" at all. It never has. It has an aftertouch feature in the note repeat function; but it's not "midi aftertouch"; or if it is midi aftertouch, it's not actually exposed to the user as midi aftertouch.
If someone is saying they were using the standard midi implementation of aftertouch inside of the maschine software; uhh… what? Did NI add it without telling anyone? I gave up on the idea years ago. I use M+ with a SH4D. It can receive poly aftertouch. I'm sure some of the patches have it built in and I would have noticed; but maybe not. I've not been actively checking because it's been soooooo long.
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so to be clear.
MASCHINE uses poly AT for Note Repeat to work.
Poly AT itself is not supported or never was as a means to use it as Aftertouch for Synths,
in 17.5 everything works as expected for Maschine Studio and MK2.
in 18.0 & 18.1 Note repeat is broken because the Poly AT messages don't seem to be transmitted correctly when using the "Lock" feature if you want to use the knobs for other parameters /pages than the note Repeat ones.-1 -
@SBkillabeatz It appears we are both experiencing the same frustrating issue. I noticed it immediately upon updating to 12.18 and confirm rolling back to 12.17 fixes the issue. I also immediately opened a ticket about this glitch in which I was told twice now that they cannot replicate the issue(???) I forwarded this topic in our last email exchange in hopes they have a better understanding as to exactly what the problem is. Fingers freaking crossed they identify and fix this glitch because I use note repeat with AT heavily. I was quite relieved to stumble across the post and see that I'm not the only one experiencing this!
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This issue is very much real and very much should be reproducible by NI. I'm having the exact same issue as documented by multiple users in this thread. If you lock Note Repeat, the pads all lose their Velocity Sensitivity. Whatever pressure I apply to pads, it's exactly as if 'fixed vel' is turned on, even when it's OFF. This sucks; much of my use of Maschine is based on varying the velocity pressure I apply to the pads while note repeat is on. For hi hats, for bass lines, for damn near everything. This bug forces me to never lock note repeat, because I absolutely require the velocity sensitivity. And never locking note repeat is a enormously inconvenient, it means if I want to use it, I must be on the note repeat page.
Note that I'm not debating the meaning of the 'A' word here, like much of this derailed thread. There is a major bug going on regardless of what that does or doesn't mean. Locking the Note Repeat should NOT make all pads behave as though Fixed Velo is ON, and yet that is exactly what is happening in 12.18. As others have said, rolling back to 12.17, the issue disappears.
If NI can't understand or reproduce this issue with as many people as are reporting and confirming it here, that is really disturbing…
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Are you also using one of the older units? Studio, mk2, mk1?
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No, I'm using a MK3
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ok the confusion is understandable as you are both right. Maschine doesn’t support any sort of aftertouch from keyboards and never has, although I’m sensing a change is on the horizon. This might be a symptom of that actually as the reason AT from keyboards doesn’t work is because Maschine is setup only to accept AT signals from its own pads, they do (or did) transmit aftertouch. God knows why NI seem unable to make this anything other than an either/or thing though.
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This bug has nothing to do with aftertouch. The mis-use of that word derailed the whole initial bug report, I wish the OP hadn't appended that word to his subject.
This is 100% about Note Repeat losing velocity sensitivity when in 'locked' mode. That's it. When it's locked, it plays back as though the FIXED VEL button was ON, even when it's not. Or at least, the response is erratic: sometimes it seems to play both very low and very high velocity values, and nothing in between (again, only when note repeat is locked).
So just forget aftertouch, it has nothing to with this bug. This is about basic velocity sensitivity of pads as it relates to Note Repeat in locked mode. It's clearly a new issue because you can roll back one version and it disappears.
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Received an email by NI tech support stating they have replicated this issue and a bug report has been submitted with future update fix pending 👍🏼
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Good to hear. I was puzzled they were saying they could not replicate this when they had already acknowledged the bug in my report. Probably just internal communication issue.
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nice, thankfully. good job
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This bug should be fixed in version 2.18.3, can you guys confirm? (I don't have any HW with me atm)
EDIT: Confirmed, problem fixed in 2.18.3 and above.
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