Is there a way to enable MIDI 2.0 channel voice messages on Kontrol S mk3 keyboards?

mikedorf

I'm poking around the MIDI 2.0 support in the S mk3 49 and only observe MIDI 1 channel voice messages being sent as UMP to the host - is there some magic to force the device to send MIDI 2.0 channel voice with their full resolution, or is it entirely on the host during CI?

I'm working with the raw MIDI interfaces on Linux if it matters and only looking at the USB MIDI 2 i/o for the time being, I haven't tested this on MacOS yet.

Uwe303

Hello,

if you set in settings on the keyboard then restart it should work. But the host must support it, like the latest cubase, for example. But on windows it doesn´t work, as far as i know, cause microsoft is behind with the windows midi implementation. So i guess you need the whole chain to support it, from keyboard (mk3 has it of course) over the driver to the daw. But i don´t know if linux supports it with the mk3, ubuntu should support it afaik.

mikedorf

I have it enabled on the keyboard, and I'm reading MIDI 1 messages encoded as UMP. Confusingly though, the MIDI settings don't seem to let you set higher resolution for CC (it says "127" which implies it's locked at MIDI 1 resolution)

As for the host, I'm developing one so I'm curious what needs to happen to get the device to send the higher resolution messages.

Uwe303

unfortunately i can´t help you further here, it does not work on windows at all for now, like i said, there is just a beta for a driver for developers, so i can´t even test it. Only thing i was seeing online, that developers use virtual midi devices for the time being or self made arduino stuff, i guess we have to wait. And additionally for the mk3 it can be the case that the driver needs some handshake or whatever to set it really to midi 2.0 (just a guess) but i don´t know how this works for linux and the mk3. - sorry

mikedorf

Sorry, I think I wasn't totally clear/accurate.

I'm reading/writing MIDI 2.0 messages with the device, however, the device doesn't seem to be speaking the higher resolution channel voice messages back (MIDI 2.0 has both 8 bit and 32 bit resolution for CC, for example, and the device only sends 8 bit afaict). I'm wondering what the host needs to do to tell the device to send the higher resolution messages, if at all possible.

I'm also explicitly writing endpoint discovery (UMP stream) messages to the device, and the spec implies that the device is required to write responses back but they never arrive, and I want to debug if this is a fault of the device's MIDI 2.0 implementation or the USB MIDI 2 driver on the host side.

Is there a better forum for technical/engineering questions like this?

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/153430#Comment_153430

Is there a better forum for technical/engineering questions like this?

I know that one or more from this forum also uses this other forum.

Kymeia

I have enabled MIDI 2 on the device and my Mac MIDI monitor tells me it is registered as a MIDI 2 device but is there any guide to what working in MIDI 2 and what isn't? (and in which DAWS?)

Would be good to have a thread like the NKS2 compatible thread of what is working

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/153545#Comment_153545

Sorry , not just what you had in mind , I did this 'Google' prior to your edit so I thought your question more general , sorry for the misunderstanding. I will still post the links in case anyone should find any of it of interest :

MultitrackStudio is at the forefront of some recent technologies: MIDI 2.0 and MIDI-CI (Mac). CLAP plugin support.
(Free Lite edition)

Details about MIDI 2.0, MIDI-CI, Profiles and Property Exchange (Updated June, 2023)

MIDI 2.0 news (10 pages over time)

MIDI 2.0 - It is really happening! What you can use right now, what is still missing? (5 months old)(from your 'friend' Jürgen Moßgraber)

Kymeia

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/153554#Comment_153554

Thanks I know about those DAWS but was meaning more how much can we expect from Komplete MIDI 2 functionally in one of those DAWS at the moment? Yeah Multitrack Studio seems to be trying to embrace every new technology going, not one I have

mikedorf

is there any guide to what working in MIDI 2 and what isn't? (and in which DAWS?)

Currently, MacOS and Linux support MIDI 2.0 I/O over USB and automatic conversion from MIDI 1 byte streams to MIDI 2 packets. Software can opt-in to reading legacy MIDI 1 byte streams or MIDI 2 packets and the operating system does the conversion where applicable. Windows has a developer preview out for the new Windows MIDI Service, which will do what CoreMIDI is doing on MacOS and ALSA is doing on Linux.

There is limited internal support for MIDI 2.0 in a few software packages that are important to the ecosystem, like JUCE (a popular SDK for developing plugins).

There is not much hardware that supports MIDI 2 to begin with so not much software can really flex on the cool features like discovery/function blocks/property exchange/etc. After experimenting over the weekend it seems like bidirectional endpoint management doesn't work quite yet, which is the base layer to getting all the cool bidirectional communication of MIDI 2.0.

I also don't know when we'll see controllers that actually make use of high resolution MIDI 2 messages and per-note control changes. With the S 49 mk3 it would be awesome to configure the poly pressure to send an RPN/NPRN control change, as well as configure the note on/off attributes for different pitch systems (these are the things I want to experiment with, but I don't think there's a controller yet that supports them).