Why does Komplete Kontrol have to spend minutes scanning my VST3 folder before opening?

tempsperdu · 2024-04-14T20:08:03+00:00

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OK, I've asked this repeatedly to no avail, but now I know what it is doing, why is Komplete Kontrol repeatedly scanning my VST 3 folder for sometimes over 6 minutes before opening?

This issue also affects NA2, Kontakt 7 and Maschine as I have noted at Centrecode/ Support and the relevant forums.

(Windows 10)

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Simchris

possibly file permissions issue not saving prefs. run komplete kontrol and kontakt as admin user. that is what i do.

iNate

Always scans and how long it takes depends on how many plug-ins you have. All of Native Instruments' software that host VST plug-ins do this. Komplete Kontrol and Maschine 2, for example, though I notice Maschine 2 does this faster than Komplete Kontrol.

Don't think it has anything to do with permissions. It does this scan on macOS and Windows.

Takes longer on Windows since I have more plug-ins installed there.

Most other products use a cache and only rescan things when a plug-in changes or when there is a new one. They will skip plug-ins that match the cache to speed up subsequent loads.

It feels like NI's software does a full scan every time it boots up.

Haven't noticed this with Kontakt and Libraries, though. Native Access 2 is a special thing and I've stopped trying to understand how or why it does what it does.

tempsperdu

But... it shouldn't... fine, all host software needs to know what plugins you have, they don't need to repeatedly scan certain plugins in your VST 3 folder every time you open the software. Why are NI products so configured that they should be doing this?

And why will no-one from NI ever explain what may or not be going on for months on end???????

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/146867#Comment_146867

I have 113 items in my Native Access 3.9.1 and (other than the initial load on a new day), it comes up in about 3 seconds, so clearly they're using a dated cache. Komplete Kontrol takes about 6 or 7 seconds to complete it's load unless it's the first load of the day. I run everything with administrator permissions and all my drives are SSD. Some of the delay in loading NA is it's checking for new updates on your library content. This is all on Windows 10.

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/146871#Comment_146871

You only get the scans for updated product versions and such in NA when you run NA standalone. I don't mind the delay which really less than 3 seconds typically as I appreciate it doing the work of finding available updates so I don't have to do it. Run it once a day and be up to date.

As you can see in my previous post I typically have sub 7 second delays in all my NI products when loading them. But I'm pretty obsessive about maintaining my system since I depend on these products daily.

It's amazing how much time you have for keeping things running well when you don't waste time on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc.....

tempsperdu

@DunedinDragon

With respect, telling me that you don't have similar problems in no way answers the issue.

Quite why all the NI products are behaving in this way, I have no idea, hence my posts.

I don't do social media, but I am a full-time carer, so my time isn't exactly unlimited........................

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/146916#Comment_146916

With respect, the point is that what you're experiencing is not "designed" into the product as you insinuated in your post, but is rather an artifact of how you have it configured or are using it.

hardhal

Hi, could it be, that you ticked the box "Always use latest version of NI Plug-ins" under "Preferendes/Plug-ins"? Then it should check for changes each time you start the software.

You can, by the way, interrupt the checkup by pressing "Esc" during the scan.

tempsperdu

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/146923#Comment_146923

This is something that only happens with the four main NI products, NA2, Kontakt 7 (Kontakt 6 is fine incidentally), Komplete Kontrol and Maschine with varying degrees of severity.

These products may not be 'designed' to operate that way, but it is the way they are behaving, and it is these products that are doing the scanning, not some other software, the big question is why?

I do believe it is triggered somehow by either something in my plugin environment or NI's handling of plugins after a certain amount, as when I was transferring systems they behaved as should till I got to an unspecified amount of plugins.

Perhaps not being a programmer, it is hard to understand how software can perform instructions it is, in theory, not instructed to action and how that might be triggered by other software.

I might point out that I had the same issues, if not as severe, on the previous laptop I was using.

I also had no problems with NA1, which does imply that newer versions of the software are working differently.

DunedinDragon

I'd start with NA2 which SHOULD mean NA version 3.9.1 as that's the most compatible with Kontakt7 ver 7.9.0, and KK ver 3.2.1 and those are the most current and get you up-to-date. There is a separation in the underlying libraries in that Kontakt7 works with VST3 plugins but can also access VST2 plugins as I understand it. I personally don't use Kontakt 6 at all in order to avoid any compatibility issues. I replace all Kontakt 6 references in my DAW projects as I encounter them to make sure they're all up to date. I think this plays a big part in getting things to operate better and more predictably.

The other thing is I spent a good deal of time organizing my underlying plugin storage across different drives to avoid processing delays due to one drive being overwhelmed by read and write operations. My plugin libraries are distributed on three different SSDs. Two of them are internal SSDs with one being an external USB SSD, and all my plugins are roughly equally allocated based on total storage size across those 3 drives.

THIS is one of the bigger reasons for differences in performance because a single drive will often build up a queue of read/write requests within the operating system causing delays in processing whereas multiple drives have separate queues so they can run more efficiently when there's lots of requests for disk access.

Memory can sometimes play into slowdowns, but my computer only has 16MB of memory and it works very efficiently. Likewise speed of processing plays into it but most fairly recent computers tend to have more than enough processing power. My computer is about 5 years old and still does just fine on Windows 10.

Generally speaking, older versions of software tend to be less demanding than newer versions because newer versions have more features built into them and use more resources. That's one reason why an older version may work faster than a newer version, but resource competition is ALWAYS an issue when it comes to computer performance whether it's competition for physical memory, storage, or processing power.

You can avoid many problems if you learn how to use the Task Manager in Windows. Not everyone wants to do that and I understand it. But knowing how to identify the things going on under the surface can often help you in circumventing many problems with more efficient use of your system resources.

tempsperdu

@ DunedinDragon

I am assuming you mean well, but this is not so likely to be a computer performance issue as I had the same problems, if to a lesser degree on the i7 laptop I was using which only had 8GB of RAM, I now have dual 8 core Xeons with 48GB of RAM and AFAIK no conflicting folder allocations and the like. I cannot see how they can create the scanning loops that are occurring.

I'm finally getting some kind of response at last off Centercode so hopefully there may finally be some traction....................................

Simchris

Just a random thought, but have you tried running Windows checking/repair tools, like SFC on your system, just to check/repair any errant file permissions? We do this periodically and sometimes fixes some oddity introduced by all the app updates, installer updates, Windows security patching, kernel level/microcode updates due to all the recent ongoing motherboard core vulberabilities, etc. -- free, takes almost no time at all. Worth doing if not done recently.

e.g.,

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/use-the-system-file-checker-tool-to-repair-missing-or-corrupted-system-files-79aa86cb-ca52-166a-92a3-966e85d4094e

JesterMgee

As someone who has used KK a LOT and also been around here since v1.1, I can confirm that some cases, what the OP experiences will happen and fat chance you will ever get an answer but I can offer some insight into what I have noted happens and when.

So when KK is first installed it obviously needs to scan every plugin to read into its database. I refer to this process as a "Deep Scan" because it seems it has to scan every plugin for the vendor and plugin names, likely also collect things like versioning and this also seems to trigger plugins to "phone home" since often if a plugin is in demo or not activated you receive popups asking for keys during this scan, sometimes these appear behind the KK splash logo and appear to "lock up" the scan.

On first run you MUST allow this to fully complete so the plugins are all available. The time it takes depends on how many VST2 and VST3 plugins you have installed to scan. If you skip this using ESC then of course plugins are not listed in the plugin menu and also, the deep scan will retrigger every time until it has fully completed.

On a second launch KK should do a "quick scan" which should simply scan the plugins for any changes, I assume it looks at the file creation date to determine a changed file so it can scan it again. It also checks for missing plugins and removes them. This scan should be quick and simple however, I have noted that sometimes it can become slow if you have demo plugins installed that have expired. I note in my case for instance, the scan is fast through most plugins but then ticks through very slow through my Roland plugins because I no longer have an active cloud account.

Now, if you note that when you launch KK a second time it scans through very slowly just as it would do on the first run, it sounds like the "deep scan" has never checked itself as being run. I believe there is a key in the KK database or in registry set after first run to indicate the full scan has happened which should now make it only look for new or changed files. If the scan is bypassed on that first launch tho it is never checked. Maybe a bug can also prevent this from being checked too.

So only from my experience, the times I see the scan go slow is either the full scan is being triggered or some plugins are causing it to always scan such as old demo or inactive plugins.

However, this is all related to KK V2, no idea what V3 may do to affect this process but could be a new bug if that is what you are now using.

tempsperdu

Thanks Jester for taking the time to give such an involved answer, much appreciated. :)

All the main NI softwares and only the NI softwares exhibit this problem (NA2, KK, Kontakt, Maschine) and I'd got so peed off with getting so little help with this, I've blitzed everywhere hoping something would trigger something that worked.

As far as I know, all the initial deep scans completed as they should.

I very rarely demo anything, but I'll have a look through and see if I can find any rogue remnants.

Last weeks update to UAD's Ultimate 12 for some reason made the scanning times massively worse.

It seems to target the plugins that always end up being rescanned that shouldn't on start up anyway but scanning and rescanning. Particularly it targets Blue Cat, UAD and Flux. I've no idea why.

JesterMgee

Yeah that is strange if it is the NI software, usually on my systems, that scans through super fast and usually only stalls and takes the "long time" when it hits my inactive plugins like Roland.

You can of course press ESC during the scan to skip it, not solving the issue just working around it, but only other thing I know of is running things like Kontakt using the standalone app and allowing it to build its database, same with Massive and other plugins. Other than that I have no real idea what would cause the slow scan, not had it happen before with NI plugins.

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