Would you buy NI Komplete Kontrol S49 MK3 as a Maschine user?
Hello!
I'm looking to buy a new MIDI controller and I was thinking about buying one of the Komplete Kontrol keyboards. I use Maschine software and I have Maschine MK3, which is my main tool while making music. I know that KK MK3 doesn't have Maschine integration but I've heard that after loading up a Kontakt library, things appear on the screens normally and you can tweak the sound and stuff. Perhaps in the future they'll implement at least a little bit of Maschine integration? I'm not sure... Can you at least automate parameters in Maschine software using MK3? To have Maschine integration, I'd buy KK MK2, but it's been 7 years since its release and I'm afraid that it's not future-proof anymore and perhaps in a few years NI might no longer support this model. One thing to consider is that I have my Maschine MK3 next to the keyboard so I'm not really sure if I need the screens that come with S49. Therefore, I was also considering KK A49... It still has the same functionality as S-models but it's cheaper. I've heard, however, that the keybed is much worse. If someone uses this one - how is it in comparison to M32, for example? I've been using M32 for a few years now and I'm not happy with how the keys feel - is it the same or it is slightly better.
Well, all of the three options have some disadvantages, unfortunately. S49 MK3 is the most expensive one but it's also the newest, which guarantees longevity. It has great-looking screens though and polyphonic aftertouch is cool as well. It doesn't have Maschine integration though and this is something that might be annoying to me. S49 MK2 has deep Maschine integration and doesn't have that many drawbacks as other options, but it's quite old in comparison to MK3 and I don't want to invest in obsolete gear. A49 seems like a reasonable and affordable option, but it's also rather old and I'm wondering how the keybed is in this one. Help me choose!
Comments
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It’s not a midi controller. It doesn’t have basic midi functions like templates or changing/adding cc assignments. I seriously recommend you stay away from the MK3. It is a nightmare. The MK2 is much cheaper now and WAY better.
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It's not currently a full featured MIDI controller. But eventually it will be and will be fully capable of more advanced two way MIDI communications between devices in the next generation of MIDI. I'm personally willing to wait for the more advanced capabilities to come about rather than have to upgrade in the future to have them.
It's hardly a nightmare. My S88 MK3 does all the things I need it to do on all my projects and I use it daily producing projects that are used live every week.
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As a maschine user I would also recommend getting a used MK2 at the moment and perhaps upgrade to a MK3 when its eventually got some use outside of KK or Kontakt. I purchased my S61 MK2 new less than 2 years ago so there should be a few years life on it at least.
Incidentally, aftertouch inside maschine doesn't function, poly or not.
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So... I'm new to the Kontrol Keyboards. I just Purchased an S61 MK3 less then a month ago. I used to run a Arturia Keylab 61 in my rig.
I own a Maschine MK1, a Micro MK2 and a Maschine MK3. I have also been using the NI software products for more then a decade...
I like the concept of S61 MK3.
I understand the issues people are complaining about the loss of the Maschine integration. Personally, I look at the Maschine as drum VST not a DAW. I treat it as such. If I need the Maschine in one of my projects I just turn on the Maschine hardware on and use it. No loss for myself.
I really do like the built-in display of the MK3 s-series. It works very well with the NI ecosystem. The key bed is also nice.
The biggest pitfall to the MK3 controller is that it virtually useless as a DAW controller for Cubase. Sure you can get it to play and record parts... but you cant even use any of the available knobs to add real-time automation to non-NI plugins.... Pretty pathetic....
Midi learn is not even possible...
It's like the 8 available knobs don't even exist outside of Komplete Kontrol or Kontakt...
I'm being really honest... this is not a midi controller. For it to be a midi controller it would need the capability to control midi.
I really like the feel and esthetic of this keyboard, but I should not have to add a second midi controller to midi learn a parameter on a non-NI product.
A word of advice: Fix your ******.
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I'd personally go forward with cautious expectations about "what it will do in the future" based on my experience of things in the last 10+ years. Assume what it does today is what it will ever do and anything it gets added is a bonus really. Many have hung their hats on hints of promise even from the MK1 days, the new V3 of KK actually went backwards in what was expected from many of us in terms of functionality and we are still in a catchup game just to try and match what was possible, to say it's been frustrating is an understatement and while I have no animosity at the excellent communication from the people heading the project today, doesn't change anything about how things have/do run and how decisions appear to be made.
TBH if you want a "controller" for Maschine i'd suggest purchasing an MK2 as suggested since there will be little benefit in the MK3, likely there will never be any integration between Maschine, or if there is it will be very mediocre and nothing like what the MK2 could do. Seems people using the KK keyboards are mostly not Maschine users.
As a keyboard and as a way to control plugins and kontakt instruments, either will fit the bill in the exact same way, and in terms of quality and performance as a keyboard, they are a good (tho be it quite pricey) option but actually having both myself and also knowing a lot about the software and functionality, as it stands today hands down I would stick with the MK2 and you can find these pretty cheap now.
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I can understand the caution, but I'm betting on the technology more than anything, but time will tell. So far with other leading edge technologies I've invested in it's paid off. This is very similar to my investment in the Line 6 Helix in 2015 which was a similarly intelligent architecture that could be intermittently updated with more compelling performance and features and that 2015 version bears little resemblance to that same unit that's gone through numerous updates over the years and is still a key component in my studio and live performances. It's not like us early adopters didn't have our doubts. That early release suffered many of the same things in that there were actually more features and capabilities in the units it replaced, and it took the better part of 2 years to see how that initial vision was going to pay off and remove our doubts.
The way I see it this entire industry segment is in a very dramatic state of flux similar to the guitar modeling environment of 2015. With the changes happening in MIDI and VST3 as well as numerous other trends it's going to take some time for all the competitors to figure out where the real hot spot features are going to be. Line 6 was probably at the same level of corporate maturity as is NI when they launched the Helix, and now as part of Yamaha they've become a very well respected part of that industry based largely on the success of the Helix and all it's offshoot products. In the same way Line 6 alienated much of their installed base by sunsetting previous products, but eventually they expanded their market 10-fold post Helix. So we'll see if the same thing happens here.
Honestly I've had my S49 MK2 for over two years and really haven't put it to much extensive use, so anything I get out of the S88 MK3 will be a plus and not a loss, so I really can't lose either way.
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Polyphonic Aftertouch is already worth it.
If you need, want, or just lust after Polyphonic Aftertouch, then it would be bad advice to tell you to get a MK2.
Edit to add: NI has been making good progress updating many Kontakt libraries to add PA capability. Just last week, I think we got 4 more libraries updated.
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And PA works in Maschine does it?
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Don't be silly now.
MK2 S series keyboards never got standard after touch in Maschine despite it being regularly requested since it's launch. What chance has a MK3 and poly after touch got?
Oh wait, I forgot, the MK3 keyboards don't support maschine at all anyway.
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I would trust Mark's point above.
You see, I have Maschine Studio and Maschine 2, but it hasn't been hooked up or even started for more than a few years now. Maybe one day this year I'll find a spot for it on my desk.
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The OP question states exactly “as a Maschine user”, therefore…
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Yes I already know that PA AT isn’t supported by Maschine, I own a Maschine and it’s been a gripe for ages, which is why I suggested the MK3 is not a good option all round for a Maschine user, stick to the mk2 .
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I get you now.
But I will take the contrarian view and say that with a few more fix cycles, the MK3 will be good for any user, whether or not they are primarily a Maschine user. It's really hard to beat that polyphonic aftertouch in any universe, including this one. 😎
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I’m fascinated by poly aftertouch too. As I’m fascinated by cars with a nice electronic regulation system for the seats.
But I would never buy a car with an engine underperforming respect its predecessor just because it can lift my seats electronically. and if they tell me “but the engine will work better in 4-5 years”, I would wait 4-5 years and see…and maybe THEN buy it. Although then they will tell me in a couple of years the car will be abandoned because “it’s already around from many years and we have to move on”.
But since, once again, the question was “as a Maschine user”, and the responsible for the choices on Kontrol MK3 (Matthew_NI), although answering without answering about many subjects, on this precise subject more than one time clearly said it will never be back as it was before (although in his last updates Chief Product Officer Simon_NI said otherwise (“knowing we can and will add it later”)…another example of saying everything and the opposite of everything in order to keep users quiet), I would make my choice based on what it can do NOW in relation to Maschine. In this case, NOTHING (or better, what every other normal midi keyboard not costing 1000 bucks can do)
More than this, on this subject I’m more inclined to believe to the guy materially responsible for the choices on the device. Therefore I would never count on any integration with Maschine ever coming (at least not something more than pushing Play and Rec, things on which also Matthew_NI said “MAYBE in the future we’ll think if ever adding them”).
Waiting a few more fix cycles sadly underline the fact that the product needs fixes. And that we are dependent of NI deciding to make or not those fixes (and on the Maschine integration subject it seems they have no intention to make them).
As said, if I buy something I’m not willing to buy it when it’s not doing what I want based on promises it will in future years. I will wait to see it doing it…and then decide if it is too late and my purchase will soon be called obsolete and replaceable or if it still has value.
Sadly I see in this MK3 similarities to the cases of Maschine Jam and Kontrol D2s…a good product that risks to fail because of NI decisions. Therefore, the only reason I see to buy it now as it is is if you are scared it will make the end of the 2 aforementioned devices, you really want it and you are scared it will soon not be available anymore.
Otherwise…unluckily the Kickstarter model (give us the money now and we will deliver later) is not applicable here. Specially because at least on Kickstarter if you want to trust someone and finance him, they make you pay for the thing a lot less than when it will finally be completely ready. In this case, it’s probably the opposite, and once MK3 will really make everything promised (if ever), we will be able to buy it for less.
Early adopters pay more and receive less is unluckily the new trend (see the sad Maschine+ case).
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Don’t do it. The Kontrol MK3 is the worst midi controller. It doesn’t do anything. You are far better off investing in an M-Audio Oxygen Pro or even a use Akai Force/MPC Live 2, which both integrate perfectly with Maschine Expansions. I could never recommend the Kontrol MK3. It’s horrible.
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