How to recover my KK presets after recent KOMPLETE upgrade ?

aka

I 've sepnt over $600 for the recent Komplete Bundle upgrade, just to install it and find out that over 30 projects have lost all their presets. This is because KK vst2 is not available anymore. When I place KK vts3 on the same track the preset is still lost. This is a total disaster.

On top of that when I open certain (non NI library presets) KK opens Kontakt6 intead of 7. When I load Kontakt 7 and try to open some the libs Kontakt 6 is loaded again and replace v7. All of this is a total nigtmare.

I really do not understand how NI could have created such a disastrous ****** and release it without testing it with multiple daws.

I keep searching for solution but so far have not found any and I see there are many, many other users having the same or similar problem. I am using Ableton adn of course made a mistake not toe place KK into a group and save the preset along with the project. I still have backup of the projects but unsure how to this this. I've seen some discussions about this, and some super confusing posts about different KK versions,...all of that super confusing and frustrating. So far have not found a reasonable solution.

Reported the problem to NI but obviously NI supposrt is absolute ****** and have not responded at all.

Any help appreciated.

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Win10-Pro/Live v11/S1 v6

KK v3.2

JesterMgee

Personally I like the old KK GUI much better. Vertical browser is much better to use than horizontal. When I resize the KK window all cetegories change their location and I have to scroll with my eyes to fin them. Generally NI is very bad in designing interfaces. The old vertical browser was very good, it just needed vertical resizing and scroll bars, that's all (but this is only my personal Pref.)

Preaching to the choir there man and i've basically said exactly the same things already on that matter, won't make a lick of difference tho. It's not just personal preference, as I also pointed out almost ALL browsers in the world adopt the same vertical scrolling format for a damn good reason. It is much more efficient and comfortable to scroll/scan results in a consistent vertical list than a horizontal one. That is why it is still the most used method of displaying information in almost any information based system since humans adopted words. But what do users know about using things...

Question: how to install KK-vst3 now , not to end up with KK-vst2 presets messed up again ?

I think you are confused with the difference between Version 2 and 3 of KK and VST2 and 3. I don't blame you, I knew there would be much confusion around all of this based on the use of V2/V3, MK2/MK3 and VST2/VST3 which are all completely different things.

Komplete Kontrol 2.9 includes BOTH a VST2 and VST3 version of the plugin. You do NOT need to install anything more. If you open Ableton Live and check your VST plugin list you should see both a VST2 and VST3 version.

If your projects are loading now that means you have the VST2 version of KK back again. You can now (if you choose to) switch out the VST2 version of KK and reload the VST3 versions on tracks. Start with just 1 track, become familiar with how things work and educate yourself until you know how it works, update one project then slowly progress so in future you are prepared. Reason I know all of this and know exactly what will and will not work is because I sat and learned it all years ago.

all vst3 plugins have now their pre-defined folder in Windows, so there is no really a choice and that's where I keep all of them. How we supposed to manage KK-vst3 installation to keep both version ?

Correct in that VST3 now has a fixed location to save users from themselves when it comes to inattention, something mac does for users well. VST2 was great for users that liked to create more organised installations but required knowledge on how to manage that with installations and custom paths, something that is slowly being lost with every generation of computer users so VST3 now just installs to a single folder, done.

You do not need to worry, VST2 and VST3 can co-exist together and as long as you chose to install both the VST2 and VST3 versions of KK then both will be there. In Ableton Live there should be 2 plugins listed in the PLugin section with a [VST2] and [VST3] tag.

TO CLARIFY: Kontakt7 is not vst3, so is KK v3 fully compatible vst3 plugin or not ?

Yeah, I do not understand your clarification here. Kontakt 7 is VST3 compatible and works in KK v2 in the VST3 wrapper. Again, I believe this is based on confusion around VST2/3 vs KK V2/3

PoorFellow

You can download the Komplete Kontrol 2.9.6 - Last VST2 supported version here ! Reverting to that might solve some of your problems.

But otherwise , and especially since this involves the use of a DAW then I will have to call for Jeremy_NI to please come take a look !

[OP , also made this comment] AND [OP already has a thread about the issues over here]

Edit , ping for Jeremy_NI removed after JesterMgee stepped in and took over !

JesterMgee

So the issue will be of course the VST2 plugin missing and it is not the "presets" are missing, it is the fact the plugin is not being loaded. The issue is not technically NI tho, this is more to do with the mess that is the VST protocol and the fact that simple "Migration" between VST2 and VST3 is not as simple as it seems and in most cases, is not possible. There are things we all should have been doing in the last 10 years to prepare for this since the writing was on the wall all this time, but seems many did not get/read the memo from almost every developer out there so now would be a good time to get up to speed and do the work needed to move your projects over to VST3... Keep in mind that not everything can move to VST3 and some decisions will need to be made.

First, take a deep breath... A problem cannot be a problem if there isn't a solution and the fix is reasonably simple to do and a good time to understand the issue at hand and do some preparation work and documentation so as to be better prepared next time you run into one of life's problems.

Uninstall KK V3 and reinstall KK V2.9 then let it do a rescan of all your content. Make sure the VST2 plugin is installed in the location where Ableton scans for VST2 plugins.

Breath a sigh of relief that your world, did not implode and you are back to where you left off.

From this point, if your projects should be working you can simply choose to stay on KK V2 since other than a change in the GUI (which is dividing opinions on suitability anyway), there is basically zero benefit to you to use the latest V3 of KK anyway. Only reason would be if you have an MK3 keyboard.

If you want to upgrade projects so they WILL work with the latest version, you need to go through each instance of plugins on your track and update the instances to VST3, something that is a good idea to do anyway since who knows how long VST2 will be supported.

First I would note down the instrument and preset for a track then delete the KK instance completely. Reload the VST3 instance of the plugin then reload the VST3 version of the plugin and the preset.

Save your project as a NEW FILE version so you have a backup of the old one. At the same time you could also do what is also a good idea for anyone to do and fill in a track record sheet which details the instrument/preset/effects/setup of each track in your mix as a record just in case you have an issue where a plugin is missing in a future update, you have some details of what you have in your set.

If you want to then test your updates will work before updating to KK V3 you can simply remove the VST2 plugin from the plugin folder where Ableton scans then boot up Ableton and load your project. If everything is correctly switched over to VST3 you will see everything load fine and no errors of missing plugins.

It will take some time to do but it only has to be done once and it is just a byproduct of using software to do things.

aka

Yes, your suggestions make sense (thanks for spending time to do this). I am really thankful you put it in a nice and clear way.

I have some questions:

• what about custom presets. I might have several (no to many) modified KK (Kontakt6) presets. How to deal with that ?
• I use KK Mk1 keyboard and as far I remember it required some special setup (copying Ableton script etc) into specific folders. I do not remeber the details, as I have done this long time ago. How would I go about this, so I do not mess up my keyboard now ?
• my concern is to be able to use Kontakt7 (not v6) simply because it has the "zoom featue" and I simply cannot work without it at the present stage of creepy GUI. Therefore I would have to upgrade to KK vst3. Mmy idea then is, to loard KK-vst3 into a track, load Kontakt7 into KK, then group the instrument in Ableton and save it as Instrument Rack for future use. I am unsure how to do this same in Studio One (as I only use it for 3+ months). I think I've seen an option to save intrument preset as well.
• I am assuming that if I resotre all my projects into another folder (than the one I am using and got screwed up) and reinstall KK vst2 only) everything should work, so I follow your suggestions and will report back. If so, then I will test the next phase to convert it to KK vst3 (which obsiously has benefits). I always try to replace all my plugins with vst3 version as soon as they are available.
• if all this works, is there any reason one might think of to keep Kontakt 5 and 6 (cause I'm planning to remove it). Also is there a way to permanently remove it from NA list ?

JesterMgee

what about custom presets. I might have several (no to many) modified KK (Kontakt6) presets. How to deal with that ?

No idea, I don't use Kontakt if I can help it.

I use KK Mk1 keyboard and as far I remember it required some special setup (copying Ableton script etc) into specific folders. I do not remeber the details, as I have done this long time ago. How would I go about this, so I do not mess up my keyboard now ?

That is another topic and doesn't affect the issue of updating VST2/3 presets. Google would be your friend there.

my concern is to be able to use Kontakt7 (not v6) simply because it has the "zoom featue" and I simply cannot work without it at the present stage of creepy GUI. Therefore I would have to upgrade to KK vst3. Mmy idea then is, to loard KK-vst3 into a track, load Kontakt7 into KK, then group the instrument in Ableton and save it as Instrument Rack for future use. I am unsure how to do this same in Studio One (as I only use it for 3+ months). I think I've seen an option to save intrument preset as well.

Well, no idea but you have an MK1 keyboard and that does NOT work with KK V3 so forget that as an option, if you want to use your MK1 keyboard you must stick to KK V2. Sometimes it has nothing to do with what you "want", more what will work for you based on what you have. Wants and needs are 2 different considerations in life.

I am assuming that if I resotre all my projects into another folder (than the one I am using and got screwed up) and reinstall KK vst2 only) everything should work, so I follow your suggestions and will report back. If so, then I will test the next phase to convert it to KK vst3 (which obsiously has benefits). I always try to replace all my plugins with vst3 version as soon as they are available.

Make sure you understand the difference between VST3 and Komplete Kontrol V3.

VST3 is the next iteration of the VST standard while KK V3 is a new version of Komplete kontrol designed for the latest keyboard. You do NOT need KK V3 to update things to VST32 but if you are on an MK1 keyboard and not using Mac, you can (and must) stick to KK V2.9 which will support BOTH VST2 and VST3 just fine and then you can take your time to update things if you choose.

if all this works, is there any reason one might think of to keep Kontakt 5 and 6 (cause I'm planning to remove it). Also is there a way to permanently remove it from NA list ?

Well, Kontakt 5 I would say no. I personally like Kontakt 6 over 7, I just dislike the browser but again I seldom use Kontakt for anything more than a basic sound here and there so all I care about personally is the actual sound loads in whatever version it chooses to work in.

Kymeia

what about custom presets. I might have several (no to many) modified KK (Kontakt6) presets. How to deal with that ?

If they are Kontakt presets Kontakt should open them in a later version, Kontakt is actually pretty good at backwards compatibility, I have Kontakt patches saved in Kontakt 2 that still work fine. The problem is when people seem to expect presets saved in a later version to open in an earlier one. I don't know many plugins that can do that.

aka

OK, so I followed the suggestions to the point. Got KK-v3 uninstalled, cleared registry and got KK vst2 installed. I placed KK on an empty track in a new-empty project and it crashed 3 times on me. I then rebooted my computer and tried again, and now it seems to work.

When I opened my older project I can see the presets back. I have not checked all of them as this would take entire day to do, but hoping all is back.

Prior to installing KK-vst2 I removed Kontakt5 and 6.

I notice that the existing preset opens up inside Kontakt7 now, which is good and expected.

Personally I like the old KK GUI much better. Vertical browser is much better to use than horizontal. When I resize the KK window all cetegories change their location and I have to scroll with my eyes to fin them. Generally NI is very bad in designing interfaces. The old vertical browser was very good, it just needed vertical resizing and scroll bars, that's all (but this is only my personal Pref.)

Now to stage 2, to update each of them to KK-vst3

Question: how to install KK-vst3 now , not to end up with KK-vst2 presets messed up again ?

all vst3 plugins have now their pre-defined folder in Windows, so there is no really a choice and that's where I keep all of them. How we supposed to manage KK-vst3 installation to keep both version ?

TO CLARIFY: Kontakt7 is not vst3, so is KK v3 fully compatible vst3 plugin or not ?

JesterMgee

Personally I like the old KK GUI much better. Vertical browser is much better to use than horizontal. When I resize the KK window all cetegories change their location and I have to scroll with my eyes to fin them. Generally NI is very bad in designing interfaces. The old vertical browser was very good, it just needed vertical resizing and scroll bars, that's all (but this is only my personal Pref.)

Preaching to the choir there man and i've basically said exactly the same things already on that matter, won't make a lick of difference tho. It's not just personal preference, as I also pointed out almost ALL browsers in the world adopt the same vertical scrolling format for a damn good reason. It is much more efficient and comfortable to scroll/scan results in a consistent vertical list than a horizontal one. That is why it is still the most used method of displaying information in almost any information based system since humans adopted words. But what do users know about using things...

Question: how to install KK-vst3 now , not to end up with KK-vst2 presets messed up again ?

I think you are confused with the difference between Version 2 and 3 of KK and VST2 and 3. I don't blame you, I knew there would be much confusion around all of this based on the use of V2/V3, MK2/MK3 and VST2/VST3 which are all completely different things.

Komplete Kontrol 2.9 includes BOTH a VST2 and VST3 version of the plugin. You do NOT need to install anything more. If you open Ableton Live and check your VST plugin list you should see both a VST2 and VST3 version.

If your projects are loading now that means you have the VST2 version of KK back again. You can now (if you choose to) switch out the VST2 version of KK and reload the VST3 versions on tracks. Start with just 1 track, become familiar with how things work and educate yourself until you know how it works, update one project then slowly progress so in future you are prepared. Reason I know all of this and know exactly what will and will not work is because I sat and learned it all years ago.

all vst3 plugins have now their pre-defined folder in Windows, so there is no really a choice and that's where I keep all of them. How we supposed to manage KK-vst3 installation to keep both version ?

Correct in that VST3 now has a fixed location to save users from themselves when it comes to inattention, something mac does for users well. VST2 was great for users that liked to create more organised installations but required knowledge on how to manage that with installations and custom paths, something that is slowly being lost with every generation of computer users so VST3 now just installs to a single folder, done.

You do not need to worry, VST2 and VST3 can co-exist together and as long as you chose to install both the VST2 and VST3 versions of KK then both will be there. In Ableton Live there should be 2 plugins listed in the PLugin section with a [VST2] and [VST3] tag.

TO CLARIFY: Kontakt7 is not vst3, so is KK v3 fully compatible vst3 plugin or not ?

Yeah, I do not understand your clarification here. Kontakt 7 is VST3 compatible and works in KK v2 in the VST3 wrapper. Again, I believe this is based on confusion around VST2/3 vs KK V2/3

aka

Thank you for the clarification. I really like the way you explain things and I wish we could find people with your skill in NI. Many of NI documents and explanations are mess. If your writting has been available prior to NI upgrades it would help un-confuse so many people and release lots of frustration. It is a shame that one of the biggest VST devbelopers cannot manage simple things. I really eappreciate your time explaining all this ;-)

As far as patch browser, we are on the same page. I used to do programing for yesrs (not related to the music), and I am quite stonned with the lack of skills and knowledge on buidling usable interfaces, not only in NI but all over the planet. Amazingly "small" single developers or very small companies built better GUIs than the big ones. That is the reson I made a post about retiring Kontakt in its current version and rebuilding it slowly from scratch. I understand its complexity but at some point somebody in NI has to make that decission, instead trying to reanimate almost dead patient, again and again...

What NI is doing I wqould compare to the car mechanic who tries to design the car dashboard or style the car shape. While he knows the engine internals very well, he has no skills or intuition on how to make it look good and functional.

I am working on upgrading all my projects now and will report back if there are any issues.

Thank you