How do I connect and configure Komplete Kontrol S88 mk3 for half pedaling

Mostacholi
Mostacholi Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

Hi, first post ever on NI forums. I am new to NI hardware and software, and I only have basic knowledge about MIDI. I recently acquired the S61 mk3 controller, and was able to get half pedaling working by disabling the sustain pedal in the controller's settings (Mode=OFF), and configuring the "Assign 1" port as follows: Mode=CONTINUOUS, Invert=OFF, Swap=RING, Type=CONTROL CHANGE, MIDI: Channel=1 Number=64, Range: From=0 To=127. I am using a Roland DP-10 pedal with its internal switch set to "continuous", and plugged into the "Assign 1" jack in the back of the S61 mk3.

With this configuration, the sustain pedal works wonderfully, with half pedaling in all it splendor. No matter what I throw at it (Kontakt libraries, Arturia Piano V stand alone app, or VSTs through Logic Pro X) half pedaling is flawless on the S61 mk3 every single time.

After a few weeks auditioning the S61, I started being displeased with the keybed. I liked everything else about it, so I did the logical thing; I got my hands on an S88 mk3. In terms of the keybed, this was definitely the right move. Unfortunately, I cannot get half pedaling working using the same configuration that works on the S61 mk3. I also tried setting the "Sustain Pedal" port as continuous on the S88 settings, using the "Assign 2" port instead, and setting "MIDI Selection" to both MIDI 2.0 and MIDI 1.0 (via the controller's settings). Nothing works on the S88 mk3 as far as half pedaling goes. I can get the Sustain pedal to work as a switch (FULL sustain or NO sustain), but cannot achieve the half pedal functionality. I can go back and forth between the S61 mk3 and the S88 mk3 using the same VST software, and only the S61 mk3 is allowing the half pedal to work.

I did some digging on the MacOS side to see if there are any hidden or intricate MIDI settings that need to be reset or changed after swapping controllers, but came out empty handed. By the way, the OS versions being used: macOS Ventura 13.6.3, and on both controllers we have: Agent Version: 1.5.5 (R14), OS Version: 1.5.5 (R)

At this point the frustration is creeping up and the user experience is suffering. I have a limited amount of time to audition the S88 mk3, so I am pressed on time to get this half pedaling feature working. Without it, I don't think I will choose to keep it. I will be grateful to other members in the community if they can shed some light on how to solve this mystery.

And now, the rant....(you can skip this part, but I need to write it just to vent a little) 😕

I cannot understand NI's lack of explicit documentation on how to configure a compatible pedal for the half pedaling functionality. Direct and concise documentation with a fully laid out example of settings, ports used and troubleshooting basics is all that's needed to help out users in the wild.

Best Answer

  • Mostacholi
    Mostacholi Member Posts: 5 Newcomer
    Answer ✓

    Haha, I feel so dumb! I messed up the calibration... When the controller screen displays "Move the pedal all the way down", I was flooring the pedal. But I have a piano-type pedal, and NI wrote this with an expression-type pedal in mind. So I went to the user manual and it states more clearly: "Move the pedal all the way to the heel down - toes up position." That position actually disengages the pedal, so I was not supposed to press the pedal at that point, but just hit OK.

    Anyway, I completed a successful calibration and now I can confirm that half-pedaling works like a charm on the S88 mk3 using the Roland DP-10 pedal.

    Uwe303, I appreciate your assistance very much! Thank you, and keep up the good tracks!

Answers

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,911 mod
    edited January 30

    Hello,

    have you tried to do the calibration? You could also try to use a midi monitor tool to see whats coming from the pedal, simplest would be to record cc64 and look if it works properly. In my case i use the sustain port and it works for me, you use then the assign 1 port i guess?

  • Mostacholi
    Mostacholi Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

    Hi Uwe303,

    Thank you for your reply. Yes, I did the calibration and nothing changed. The MIDI monitor tool is a good idea. I did not know they are available, but I’ll look into it.

    When you say you use the sustain port, do you mean you have it configured to do half pedaling, or as default (switch mode for on/off full sustain)?

    Thanks again!

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,911 mod
    edited January 31

    I have set it to continuous as far as I remember cause I also want half pedaling and I use it for.otzer stltuff, where I need it to be a midi controller from 0 to 127, I then just change the cc number but I'll look to be totally sure and report, you can use midiOX as midi monitor, it also has a manual and lots of videos out there how to midi monitor with it. Cubase has a build in midi monitor as midi plugin but I don't know for other daws but like I said simply record some midi automation and look into the values is also fine.

  • Mostacholi
    Mostacholi Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

    Which controller are you using?

    I followed your suggestion and installed a utility to look at the MIDI messages. On the S88 mk3 set to continuos with values 0 to 127, flooring the pedal only generates messages with values between 0 and 7. Releasing the pedal generates the same values in decreasing order. Running calibration only disables the pedal altogether.

    So far it appears as if the Roland DP-10 is not supported on the S88 MK3 as half-damper pedal. It work fine as sustain (in SWITCH mode). The question remains, why does it work as a half-damper pedal on the S61 mk3? What is different between the S61 mk3 and S88 mk3 hardware that produces different results?

    Unfortunately, not even NI can tell me which pedals are compatible with the mk3 S series controllers. Their own website says they are still testing to determine that. I wil capture the MIDI messages using the S61 mk3 and keep digging.

    I have a unique opportunity to troubleshoot since I have both units with me for a few more days, but I need NI's help. This will likely end up as a support ticket with them.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,911 mod
    edited January 31

    I use a nektar pedal NX-P and normally all pedals should work, you simply have the ones with one button, two buttons, or a potentiometer in there. Or like yours where you can switch modes with a potentiometer and a switch. Maybe also move the function switch on the DP10 again to switch and back to continuous maybe the switch is not correctly in position. If you calibrate do you press it down then release it after asked for?

  • Mostacholi
    Mostacholi Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

    Nice tracks!

    OK, more findings. The S61 mk3 in continuous mode (values 0 to 127) generated values from 0 to upper 90s as recorded by the MIDI messages tool. The half damper effect sounded great. Now here is where things went downhill. Since the values capped at about 98, I thought it would be a good idea to calibrate it. I realized I never calibrated the pedal on the S61 mk3 (since it was working from the first time I plugged it it). So I ran the calibration, and it broke it! After calibration the pedal only generates MIDI values from 0 to 6, just like it does with the S88 mk3. The calibration steps are straightforward: press pedal all the way and hit OK, then release pedal all the way and hit OK again, then press OK one more time to confirm, and done.

    I did a RESET on the S61 mk3 to see if that restored the calibration to some default values, but it did not. I still get the same range from 0 to 6. I can use the S61 mk3 menu to shift the values to the upper ranges (for example starting at 100) but it still generates a range of about 6 values.

    So going back on what I have done, I ran a calibration on the S88 mk3 very early on when I was trying to set it up. That calibration messed it up from the get go, and it never worked. The half pedal feature worked on the S61 mk3 for several weeks until I ran the calibration today.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,911 mod
    edited January 31

    And if you try the option to swap tip ring or what it's called then calibrate again? I see if I find a diagram of the DP10.

  • Mostacholi
    Mostacholi Member Posts: 5 Newcomer
    Answer ✓

    Haha, I feel so dumb! I messed up the calibration... When the controller screen displays "Move the pedal all the way down", I was flooring the pedal. But I have a piano-type pedal, and NI wrote this with an expression-type pedal in mind. So I went to the user manual and it states more clearly: "Move the pedal all the way to the heel down - toes up position." That position actually disengages the pedal, so I was not supposed to press the pedal at that point, but just hit OK.

    Anyway, I completed a successful calibration and now I can confirm that half-pedaling works like a charm on the S88 mk3 using the Roland DP-10 pedal.

    Uwe303, I appreciate your assistance very much! Thank you, and keep up the good tracks!

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,911 mod

    Thank you for your kind words - and have fun

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