Alicia's Pedal

Michael Groarke
Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member

Hey I'm having a weird issue with the sustain pedal and Alicia's Keys. In standalone mode, the pedal does not function as expected in spite of toggling through all pedal settings. I do hear a little bump in the decay when I release the pedal. The pedal seems to work as expected for other sounds in the library. Also, when using Kontakt as an instrument within a DAW, everything functions as expected even with Alicia's Keys.

This is Mac OS Ventura

Kontakt Player 7 AND

Kontakt Player 6

The MIDI controller is an old Roland piano going through a MOTU 828mk3

Best Answers

  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member
    Answer ✓

    I just downloaded Noire and tested it. No sustain.

    Then, through a very weird series of steps, I managed to get it to work.

    I'll post later, but I am optimistic that my troubles are in the past.

  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member
    Answer ✓

    So here's what I did.

    After a fresh DL of "Noire" exhibited the same problem, I felt compelled to try another controller. I hadn't done this yet due to the fact that sustain was working on all non-piano sounds in standalone mode, and on every sound in host mode.

    Regardless, I connected a USB controller and plugged into it the sustain pedal I had been using. For this particular M-Audio controller, the polarity of my pedal was reversed, but I was getting sustain!

    I then connected a different pedal with a polarity switch and everything was good. Then...

    I removed the M-Audio controller and returned to my formerly problematic Roland controller. Everything that had been dysfunctional was now working.

    Don't know what to say about all of this, but for the moment, the gremlins are gone.

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Answers

  • realdealpeel
    realdealpeel Member Posts: 20 Member
    edited November 2023

    Can you try using the instrument with a MIDI sequence in a DAW, and write in some C64 automation and see if it behaves as expected? If it does work fine in that situation, then your physical pedal is probably not fully pressing or lifting.

    Sorry, I read-over part of your post. What about trying your pedal with another pedal instrument?

    Gah, I read-over again. I'll just shutup now, sorry.

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod

    If it's only happening in this library, maybe there's a wrong MIDI assignment of CC64 (=sustain) for this library, can you check if something is affected here?


  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member

    The plot thickens!

    Again, I am in Standalone mode using Kontakt Player 7. I am not getting sustain with my sustain pedal in Alicia's Keys. I tried various instruments from the Kontakt Factory Library and discovered that the pedal works on many instruments, BUT NOT PIANOS! Not Alicia's Keys or the Concert Grand in Factory Library.

    Not an issue in plugin/DAW


  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod
    edited November 2023

    @Michael Groarke You can get to these MIDI settings from the standalone Kontakt 7 Player, go to View and choose rack view. Do you see anything assigned to CC64?

  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member

    It appears just as your screenshot does: “nothing assigned”

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 885 mod

    I'm using an A25 and Kontakt and the sustain pedal works ok. There's no assignment to CC64 in the MIDI automation page so that's probably not the problem.

    If you go into Monitor and look in the Groups tab do you see a little speaker icon appear next to the "FX pedal up" and "FX pedal down" when you press the pedal?

    -- Mike

  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member

    Thanks for giving this some thought. I went into "Monitor" and selected "Groups" and there's nothing there.

    When I depress the sustain pedal, I do see a flash of the MIDI indicator (both for on and off actually). The very peculiar aspect of this problem is that it is only happening with piano sounds. If I explore a variety of instruments within Kontakt Factory Library, I get sustain on brass, organ, strings, etc. but NOT piano. Also, as I said initially, this is not a problem in Host (DAW) mode, just Standalone. I am beginning to suspect this has something to do with the layers of sophistication that NI includes with regard to piano pedals. More than just a simple sustain, there are resonances and noises that are emulated. What puzzles me is that this is freshly downloaded Kontakt Player; it's not like I messed with a setting and have forgotten about it.

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 885 mod
    edited December 2023

    oops I missed a step sorry!! When you go into Monitor and Groups it initially says "No instrument selected". Click on the little cogs icon top left of the Alicia's Keys instrument in the rack and see if this shows the parameters. It does with the complete version of Kontakt, but Player might be limited.

    Are you sure the pedal is sending CC64 (sustain) rather than CC66 (sostenuto). Might be worth checking with a MIDI monitor app. Although it if was, the keys that are currently pressed would be sustained, just new keys wouldn't be.

    -- Mike

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod

    Interesting. What model is the sustain pedal? Can you check what kind of MIDI message is being sent when you use the pedal, as @mykejb suggested? How to Monitor the Input of a MIDI Controller

  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member

    Went into Monitor Groups as suggested and the little speakers do show up on pedal down and pedal up.

  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member

    As I say in my OP, this is an old Roland piano (RD250s) with a standard Roland sustain pedal. It works properly in every other context EXCEPT Kontakt standalone pianos. When I record in Logic or Digital Performer, pedalling shows up as Sustain and CC #64. Kontakt Pianos work properly in Host mode. Non-pianos (e.g. brass, strings) work properly in standalone mode. Very strange.

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod

    @Michael Groarke Not that I want to blame your old Roland Piano but I was not able to reproduce the issue with several keyboards. Are you able to change the settings of the pedal on this keyboard? Can you check on what MIDI channel it's emitting? You can use MIDI monitor for that too How to Monitor the Input of a MIDI Controller

    If you change the MIDI channel here, from omni to 1 to 16, do you finally get sustain?


  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member

    I match the MIDI channel of the kbd to the channel of the Kontakt instrument. I SEE activity in Kontakt when I use the pedal. I even HEAR sustain in many instruments, just not pianos. What I do hear on piano sounds is a very faint tail of piano sound that sounds on pedal release. Ordinarily I would reinstall Alicia’s Keys but the problem shows up in ALL of my pianos.

    The only flaky thing so can share is that Kontakt 5 for some reason shows up in “demo” mode as if the libraries are not activated. I don’t know why that would impact on what is happening in both Kontakt 6 Player and Kontakt 7 (full).

    Again, all of this is in standalone. “host” mode is fine

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod

    @Michael Groarke Does that include Noire and Una Corda, the more recent Piano libraries?

  • Michael Groarke
    Michael Groarke Member Posts: 23 Member
    Answer ✓

    I just downloaded Noire and tested it. No sustain.

    Then, through a very weird series of steps, I managed to get it to work.

    I'll post later, but I am optimistic that my troubles are in the past.

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