Change Midi CC assignments on Kontrol S61 Mk3?
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I feel these comments, as i play live with a Roland RD-700NX. I wanted to update sounds, but not having the cash for a new (old) RD 2000, or absolutely not a Nord, i chose to try out a new MIDI controller, and create my own presets. Well, i've done all that, but i have no clue what i'm looking at on the board as i can not change anything on it without the editor. I fear i bought too soon, but i hope the wait will be worth it. I'm going to try to play out live and hope to god it doesn't go badly.
Please hurry on a beta so i can immediately try it out and change some stuff, cause right now i cannot even connect. 🤘
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nailed it.
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I totally agree Babrekulf. Their decision to release this keyboard without a functioning midi editor is stunningly flawed. You can’t even map to some of their own plug-ins or synths that are not NKS compatible. What were they thinking?
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It’s now nearly mid-Q1….what’s the money line on whether NI ever releases this or releases some weird non-functioning variant of what was on the MK2? I have to say I really haven’t used my S61 MK3 at all because it lacks basic midi controls. It’s been a real disappointment since I felt deceived that the feature removal was not stated in any of the youtube demos.
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@MorrisEd for what it's worth. Matthew NI state in another thread the other day that "We are a few weeks away from having on-device MIDI templates in beta, and hope to ship some time after that. That will allow you to create, edit, save and load MIDI templates without a computer connected."
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And how many people used prior versions of NI keyboards without a computer connected?
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That’s not the point. With Mk2, there was at least a way of editing midi template via KK software, with Mk3 (as of now) - there is no such way.
NEITHER via software, NOR via hardware, that’s the point!
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Perhaps the point is.. if MIDI template for the S-Mk3 keyboard had not been strategically decided to exclude the KK software, we would have had MIDI template available at launch.
And every other upcoming feature/desire is going to take much longer and be more constricted because of this strategic decision of requiring a "hardware dongle" by NI.
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I see. Seems you have a new favourite subject to talk about, just after iPad and AI… 😜
Fortunately, most people do not want to have a useless slab of plastic which doesn’t work without software. I don’t see anyone here who actually sentiments your idea that dumb controllers are the future.
Hint: it’s other way round 👍
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I think many, many, many users would prefer to do NKS2-related stuff, Play Assist stuff, MIDI Template editing stuff using their nice big computer screen, qwerty keyboard, trackpad/mouse instead of much more constrained environment of on-device display and on-device navigation/selection controls.
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And again, industry's trend is other way round. So this time it's not just me, you need to agree to disagree with: Akai, Novation, Arturia, M-Audio and Ableton.
So who has released any new dumb controllers recently (let's say 2022-2023) which require software driver/wrapper to work? And why are people not supporting you with their comments or upvotes, if there is many, many, many users who think like you?
Many, many, many users might have thought that few years ago when Novation Automap, Akai VIP, Nektar Nektarine and even KK Mk1/NKS was released. I thought that myself back then.
But now, in 2024, all those wrappers are abandoned or not developed anymore. People were left with slabs of plastic with no functionality at all. Some manufacturers, like Novation graciously provided MCU firmware updates for users so they could still use their keyboards, some other decided that, for example Mk1 series was done for. And Akai just pretends that VIP never existed at all 😀
Very simple answer why wrappers didn't prevail: software moves too fast (especially on Mac platform, but recently also on Windows 11), maintaining compatibility on OS level (drivers, etc.) is next to impossible (or financially not viable) in a long term. Just look at all the drama with Mk1: yes, it works as plain MIDI controller, but people didn't buy it for this. Not everyone can change £600-800 controller every 3-5 years.
I have this little Novation controller here (Launchkey Mk3), it does scales, chords, arps and guitar strumming on hardware. It works with everything. Every platform, software, DAW, whatever you imagine. Via USB (class compliant) or via 5pin MIDI. Same functionality. I can keep it for 10 years, if I so desire.
I will buy Mk3 if NI lives up to their promises in regards of on-device functionality and only then. Otherwise, I can keep the Novation for as long as it is technically sound - I don't need to worry about next Mac OS, next KK software or anything. Heck, even if I would switch platform or DAW, it will still work and do what it was designed to do.
That's what on-device functionality is for and that's what you can't understand for some reason, my friend.
If NI wants to do something truly revolutionary, they should expose all NKS2 functionality to 3rd party plugin companies so they could make their plugins directly compatible with NKS2 and light guide, without the need for any wrapper (KK software). Just like NI did for their own Kontakt.
Now that would be amazing, IMHO.
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Nothing wrong with a MIDI controller being "smart" enough to be a MIDI controller.
I have owned many... dozens.
But for NI to offer a music production ecosystem that pursues the best user experience, the best available display and input devices (QWERTY/Trackpad/mouse) should not be needlessly excluded.
Why not want this ability?
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Dear Matthew_NI,
Thanks for showing some rudimentary honesty, unlike the higher ups at NI. Still, releasing a MIDI controller without advertising that it isn't one is beyond confusing and a bit ridiculous. You've made me, and many others spend hours trying to figure out something NI obviously doesn't consider enough of a priority.
We're at the end of February, almost six months after this thread started, and your eye-catching device still isn't a MIDI controller. How's that even possible? Making it one should've been your main and only focus for months. Your lack of getting the gravity of your misjudgement forces me to unplug the MK3 and go back to my MK1.
Given that all NI's other keyboards so far have been MIDI controllers, how can it - still - be so difficult for the team at Schlesisches Tor to make the MK3 work properly?
It's high time for a timeframe. You can't well buy a MK3 as long as NI's unconcerned with its primary function. Please consider those of us who produce for a living, using developed personal setups for other instruments.
What's your recommendation: Should I return the MK3 and see if, or when, NI might feel like making it a MIDI controller - or are you on the verge of releasing an update that makes it work?
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To ehausler’s point, I fully agree. I so regret waiting too long to set up the unit only to find out that there was no midi editor. The return period expired and I’m stuck with it. Back to using my Novation and trying to sell it. Matthew and native instruments can try to spin this anyway they want it will end up pointing to them. They just blew it. Stupidest thing ever. It is a midi, controller, emphasis midi controller with no template editor.. think about it, with all the money that they spent giving a bunch of Youtubers free units so they can hyped this thing up, because they were so grateful to native instrument for sending them a free unit, they could’ve put together a beta version of a template for us. Give us something even the old editor from the MK2 while we wait for something worthy of their flashy unit. And I don’t know about you, but at the time, I watched all of the videos available then. Not one of them took the time to dive deep enough for such an important feature and say, hey by the way, this thing has no midi editor so if that’s important to you, you might wanna wait. For someone like me and all of us here talking about this, the inclusion of a midi editor is an assumption you make by default if you’re buying a midi controller. This is not a ridiculous which list request. Lesson learned for me, look beyond the hype. I’m certainly going to put a pause on their future products until I get verification of my concerns.
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The trend at NI is to promise the updates, but not deliver as far as I can tell from prior releases such as Massive X, which had similar criticisms of being an unfinished product at release. I hope NI proves me wrong, but no midi editor plus the sad state of how the parameter wordings are display in gibberish makes this keyboard unusable (NI has also said they are working on an update for this as well). I would also note that in the youtube launch videos a NI rep said the midi templates would be available Q4 23. I later saw that pushed back to “mid-Q1 24,” and now they are saying first half of 2024. Obviously, they are struggling to either accomplish adding midi templates or simply do not have staffing to do it imo. I am not hopeful we will get a functional editor similar to MK2 even if NI does release something. I believe the mistake they made was relying on NKS2 mappings being enough to reduce the need for a midi editor, but NkS2 coverage is so limited and deficient even when applied that I find it a huge downgrade to lose this customizability. I am with you on not buying anymore NI hardware or software unless updates are delivered. I already passed on buying Schema Light and Tines because I felt deceived about the marketing of the Kontrol MK3.
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