NKS adaptations of ensembles

Kymeia
Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,019 mod
edited October 22 in Reaktor

I have a bunch of favourite ensembles I have adapted to work in the NKS environment - mainly because I like the hands-on control and to have everything in one place. My ethic is very much one that if I make something for myself I find useful then it seems only natural to want to share it (for free) so I would like to post some of these in the UL. As much as possible I believe in doing this with the permission of the original creator, as I respect their original work and would always acknowledge that. Either that means sending them the adapted ens for them to post, if that is their preference, or me posting it with their permission and crediting them of course.

That would be the ideal but I am aware that in the UL there is a degree of acceptance of people doing reskins, mods and mashups of other ensembles in the UL and as this is along the same lines wondered about the ethics of posting NKS adaptations for ensembles where I have not been able to get a response from the creator. So far I have done this to a limited degree with some really old classic ens, but I also have NKS versions of more recent ones like Philthy, the Boscomac ensembles, a couple by OreKore and Beast 2. What are people's thoughts?

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Comments

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,477 Expert

    If I understand correctly, you will just post the NKS files. People wanting to use them will have to download the ensembles from the original creators anyway (which I suppose they published in the Reaktor users library).

    What you are publishing is just your work (even if based on someone else “creation”, which they were anyway so generous to make available for anyone to download).

    If I were the author, I would just be happy that someone expanded my work. In any case, you are not modifying their creation, just adding a layer to make it even more accessible.

    Therefore I don’t see any ethical conflict nor any kind of “stealing someone else work”. Specially since you always acknowledge what they’ve done.

    It’s like when publishing NKS for third parties commercial libraries: you are not making their work available for people who didn’t buy it, you are just giving tools to the legitimate users to access them even better.

    And…THANK YOU again for your work for the community!

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 487 Guru

    I'd say, if you've posting the KK/Maschine presets, and not the ensemble, that's reasonable - especially if they're non-commerical. Asking for permission is right, but if there's not response for a while, I would consider posting as fine.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,019 mod
    edited October 2023

    No it's not just NKS files, the problem is most ensembles don't just work in KK straight from the UL, at the very least most need some work to get the automation IDs aligned to be learnable in KK and this is not just a case of sort/compress but going through each one by one and renumbering them because KK is incredibly picky about Reaktor automation and only seems to accept the first 128 params, and even then sometimes it just refuses to learn one so you have to reassign it. So it's modified ensembles, but not drastically so - just a few things that need doing to make them work well in NKS - they are still fundamentally the same ensemble

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,477 Expert
    edited October 2023

    Oh ok….

    In this case I would go and read the Reaktor User Libraries agreements. I’m almost sure somewhere it is stated that by publishing there you consent that the material is public and people downloading it can do of it what they want (probably also redistributing it). Therefore publishing them there they agree with this.

    And being sure you’ll credit anyway the original creators, to me the whole matter is very transparent.


    Edit: I checked…and is not so clear as I thought…

    It’s only written that NI has the right to use them as they want (except selling them), but nothing is stated expressly for other users…

    It even says that the original creator “will remain the owner of the copyright in the content uploaded”…

    While I’m still convinced that creators would not have any problem with your additional work (I think they would even say “thank you” as we all do), legally the situation is not so clear.

    But in facts the truth is that what is already being done now (with third parties commercial libraries) is even more “borderline”…

    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/company/legal-information/ul-terms-and-conditions/


  • colB
    colB Member Posts: 988 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/97930#Comment_97930

    But in facts the truth is that what is already being done now (with third parties commercial libraries) is even more “borderline”…

    In what way?

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,477 Expert

    Companies selling you libraries could always tell you you can’t modify their product.

    Not that they will…for them having someone else giving their libraries more functionalities should be a good thing. But…you never knows

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,019 mod

    I have updated CHA-OSC to be compatible with NKS - anyone think it would be OK to post it in the UL? I doubt I'll get a response from Stephan Schmidt if I ask him after all these years

  • Paule
    Paule Member Posts: 1,314 Expert
    edited October 2023

    CHA-OSC is similar to Spark but was never not commercial.

    https://www.native-instruments.com/de/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/5877/

    13 years in UL.

    Please update the U/L and give Stephan Schmitt a notice only.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,019 mod

    Yeah it’s excellent, thanks I will do that, if Stephan objects I can easily take it down again

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,019 mod

    OK I have posted it:

    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/15071/

  • Paule
    Paule Member Posts: 1,314 Expert
    edited October 2023

    Thanks Stephen.

  • Moonbot7000
    Moonbot7000 Member Posts: 64 Member

    I mostly agree with what's been said. People post to the UL because we want to share our work with others. We're not monetizing it, we're making it available for all to play, analyze, inspire, and modify. I'd say post it, send a quick message to the creator if you feel so inclined, and please keep us updated with what you make as I would LOVE it for my own personal use. I appreciate u sharing ur work!

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,019 mod

    Thanks, I agree and where possible I have reached out to the original creators, the problem for me is those I have not had an explicit response from like the Boscomac ones (I have converted the entire pack to NKS). Maybe I will try to release just one or 2 and see if they cause any problems for the creator, if they do I will gladly delete them again?

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,019 mod
    edited October 2023

    I've also just made a NKS mod of Antique which has over 700 snaps - amazing ensemble

  • tommyflanagan
    tommyflanagan Member Posts: 25 Member

    Bosco's email is: boscomac@free.fr

    He's been very responspive with us in the past.

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